1976 K341 Overhaul - Worth It or Not?

[953 nut 51,703]

Man, that is totally disheartening! The rod cap orientation is a likely to have caused the failure, regardless it is a real shame.

[HappyHillbilly 86]

45 minutes ago, oldredrider said:

That's a heartbreaker for sure. My guess is something wrong with the rod installation. Rod appears to be an oversize (.010). What did the crank mic? Was the rod cap installed with the proper orientation? 

You'll have to do some investigating to find the reason.

Sorry about all that work going south.

The rod was for a -.010” crank & installed the same way I took it out. I took a lot of photos as I disassembled to ensure proper re-assembly. 

 

With the starter hanging up on the first crank attempt & the block cracking right at the starter leads me to think that the starter gear & flywheel got locked up. But I’m not sure. 

 

Oh, well - at least I’ve got s nice showroom engine. I’m gonna JB Weld the 2 pieces of the block back in - put a plate of glass on top of it and sell it as a coffee table. Haha!!

Edited May 1, 2019 by HappyHillbilly

[HappyHillbilly 86]

7 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Man, that is totally disheartening! The rod cap orientation is a likely to have caused the failure, regardless it is a real shame.

It would be even worse if I find out for sure it was something this idiot (me) did.

I’ll have to go & review my disassembly photos to see if I can tell. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by HappyHillbilly

[HappyHillbilly 86]

OK - the piston, connecting rod and end cap were installed the way they came out, which I believe is the right way because before I tore it down I had it turning over without any clanking.

Here's one of my disassembly photos for verification.

 

[oliver2-44 8,852]

Do you have a picture with the block upside down looking at the connecting rod and crank shaft . You should verify the oil hole in the connecting rod was in the right orientation so oil was getting to the crankshaft journal. As shown in this picture the oil hole (circled in red) should be on the cam shaft side of the block (arrow point to cam shaft)

[HappyHillbilly 86]

3 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

Do you have a picture with the block upside down looking at the connecting rod and crank shaft . You should verify the oil hole in the connecting rod was in the right orientation so oil was getting to the crankshaft journal. As shown in this picture the oil hole (circled in red) should be on the cam shaft side of the block (arrow point to cam shaft)

No, I don’t have a photo after re-assembly verifying that, just the one of the damage. 

In the photo below you can see the oil hole is on the left and that there’s a mark on the connector just to the right of it. My disassembly photo shows that mark as being on the left. All of this is as viewed from bearing plate side of engine. 

 

I’m 95% sure rod, connector, etc..., were installed & torqued right. There’s no marks, scuffs or bends in the slinger, either.

 

The clattering I heard was not rhythmic like I’d expect from a revolution issue. It was a bit sporadic & appeared to be in conjunction with the movement of the extended starter arm/gear.

it was more like; “clang, clang-clang, clang, clang, clang-clang.”

 

i really appreciate ya’ll’s questions & thoughts. Thank you much!

[HappyHillbilly 86]

Weld it???

During my search at local places I’ve had 3 small engine mechanics tell me; “Weld it,” with confidence it would hold if done by a good welder & all 3 suggested 3 different welders within a 15 mile radius of each other.

 

Personally - I’m not too concerned about the visual cracks’ weld holding up - BUT - I am concerned about any micro, or non- visual cracks.

i can get it welded for free from a few different people I’ve got confidence in.

 

I’d like to get yall’s take on the matter. Thanks!

[ebinmaine 63,141]

Let me just preface the following statement by saying that I am by no means an expert in engines or welding or any combination there in.

 

That said.... If I could get that done, free, correctly, oh yeah, I'd try it...

[HappyHillbilly 86]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

Let me just preface the following statement by saying that I am by no means an expert in engines or welding or any combination there in.

 

That said.... If I could get that done, free, correctly, oh yeah, I'd try it...

 

Thanks, Eric! I just got off the phone with a cousin that's a welder & he advised against it. And he was my top choice of welders.

Basically - He said welding a crack is one thing but welding a crack & 2 rather large pieces is another. Plus he, himself, mentioned the possibility of unseen stress fractures.

Oh, well...

[953 nut 51,703]

If it was an irreplaceable engine block then welding would be the best option, but with the number of K-341s out there I agree with your cousin. The area where the starter bolts up is the piece that would be most likely to fail.

[daveys82 1]

I have a  C-161 Automatic, hydro with, dump wagon, garden plow, and snow plow. grandfather left it to me when he passed. he bought it brand new I used it about 4 or 5 years until I had fuel problems. had to shoot a lil starting fluid in carb to get running. then it sat for a few years. I pushed it in the garage the other day to mess with it. a lot of things were rusted and seized up. after a few days got most everything freed up. only way I could get it to turn over was to jump the starter. sprayed a lil fluid in carb and sound like it was going to fire up, but didn't. did pull the plug and the piston was moving up and down. I don't really know much about these things. would really like to get it going again, but not sure how or what it would cost in the long run. maybe if I could do it myself I would, but don't have a lot of time or money and shops around here want $100 an hour and the only true wheel horse company here closed down a couple years ago also thought about putting everything up for sale. guess I am just looking for advice on what to do. any suggestions ?  thanks. Dave 

[ebinmaine 63,141]

4 hours ago, daveys82 said:

I have a  C-161 Automatic, hydro with, dump wagon, garden plow, and snow plow. grandfather left it to me when he passed. he bought it brand new I used it about 4 or 5 years until I had fuel problems. had to shoot a lil starting fluid in carb to get running. then it sat for a few years. I pushed it in the garage the other day to mess with it. a lot of things were rusted and seized up. after a few days got most everything freed up. only way I could get it to turn over was to jump the starter. sprayed a lil fluid in carb and sound like it was going to fire up, but didn't. did pull the plug and the piston was moving up and down. I don't really know much about these things. would really like to get it going again, but not sure how or what it would cost in the long run. maybe if I could do it myself I would, but don't have a lot of time or money and shops around here want $100 an hour and the only true wheel horse company here closed down a couple years ago also thought about putting everything up for sale. guess I am just looking for advice on what to do. any suggestions ?  thanks. Dave 

You've most certainly come to the right website Dave. Welcome to Red Square. Feel free to go ahead and start your own thread anytime you have any question whatsoever.

A Wheelhorse is a very mechanically simple machine. If you have even basic mechanical knowledge the folks on this site will get you on the right track without any issue.

I think I speak for pretty much all of us when we say that you have a very highly desirable machine as Wheelhorses go and also that the new machines are just not going to stack up to the strength and reliability of what you have there.

 

We would also advise keeping it and fixing it and using it.

 

[Ed Kennell 35,771]

 to the Davey.         I second what Eric said.    IMO, the C series tractor with the 16HP single Kohler is one of the best.     And with it's family history,  this is a tractor you must save.    If it turns over and has spark at the plug, it will run without much effort.

I would start by cleaning all electrical connections including the grounds.   If they are bolt on like on the battery, starter, coil and points, remove theme one at a time and clean the lugs and posts with a wire brush.  This tractor has the anti vibration engine mount and it is very important to remove and clean the ground strap between the engine and frame.   If they are push on connectors like on the ignition switch and ammeter, pull them off and on several times to scrape them clean.

I would replace the plug and clean and gap the points.     This will probably fix any electrical issues except a broken wire.

It should then run on fuel sprayed into the carb.   The carb may only need a simple cleaning and the fuel pump may need cleaned or rebuilt.

Please start a separate thread with the reconditioning and more members will be available to help with any problems.

 

Good Luck.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Ed Kennell

[HappyHillbilly 86]

6 hours ago, daveys82 said:

I have a  C-161 Automatic, hydro with, dump wagon, garden plow, and snow plow. grandfather left it to me when he passed. he bought it brand new I used it about 4 or 5 years until I had fuel problems. had to shoot a lil starting fluid in carb to get running. then it sat for a few years. I pushed it in the garage the other day to mess with it. a lot of things were rusted and seized up. after a few days got most everything freed up. only way I could get it to turn over was to jump the starter. sprayed a lil fluid in carb and sound like it was going to fire up, but didn't. did pull the plug and the piston was moving up and down. I don't really know much about these things. would really like to get it going again, but not sure how or what it would cost in the long run. maybe if I could do it myself I would, but don't have a lot of time or money and shops around here want $100 an hour and the only true wheel horse company here closed down a couple years ago also thought about putting everything up for sale. guess I am just looking for advice on what to do. any suggestions ?  thanks. Dave 

 

Dave - for sure, you're on the right forum here at Red Square. I'm a newbie myself - to both Wheel Horse & this forum. I also only had a few basic mechanic things under my belt.

1 - Keep that C161 due to family heirloom & its actual worth.

2 - If that engine is the K341 like I believe it is, what you're seeing moving is actually the exhaust valve. I made the same mistake when I first started working on mine and Garry caught it.

3 - These folks here know their stuff and go far above & beyond to try to help.

4 - I'd spend the $2-3 for a new spark plug and that will get you to a good testing point for getting good spark. Been there, done that.

4a - Due to engine paint & head fin corrosion I was only able to get a good spark plug ground by wrapping bare wire a few times around threads of spark plug & took the other end of that wire and connected it engine block/battery ground bolt. Had a weak, orange, spark, so i replaced coil - then I got a purple spark. Still a bit weak. The wire running from the points to coil had a few cracks in the insulation, especially at the wire retaining clip on the front of the block, allowing it to short to the engine block.

 

I didn't have any physical help in testing circuits and so forth so I placed a concrete block on the clutch pedal so the safety switch was activated & used a multimeter to test for voltage at the coil, starter, etc...

 

As far as I'm concerned - you're more than welcome to continue using this thread for advice. You might get more feedback by copying your post & pasting it in a "Start a new topic".

 

Best of luck!