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CW418A

What are these?

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I found these in the oil after doing an oil change.  The are only 1/4 in long solid and may 2/32 wide.   What are they ???   They are shiny silver the picture looks more brass colored.  I have a 1984 418A so this is an 18 hp Kohler engine.

418A found in oil.jpg

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Look like parts of a bearing to me.  

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About the only thing in there that I can think of that would have something that size would be the pins to hold the weights on the governor gear.  If you take the oil fill cap off and look in there with a light you can see the gear and might be able to see if both pins are still in it. 

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There was another one for a total of three.  One fell on the floor and I didnt look for it since I had these two.  

 

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You're either really unlucky because you're likely facing a teardown and repair or really lucky because it's decided to warn you instead of grenading. Are you a glass full kinda guy? If I had that happen to me, it's an immediate disassembly. It does look like bearing rollers as moe1965 suggested.

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Is it possible they were in the drain pan BEFORE the oil change? Doesn't look like roller bearing parts to me.

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6 hours ago, Tuneup said:

You're either really unlucky because you're likely facing a teardown and repair or really lucky because it's decided to warn you instead of grenading. Are you a glass full kinda guy? If I had that happen to me, it's an immediate disassembly. It does look like bearing rollers as moe1965 suggested.

 

What Bearing?  Would be helpful.  Everything I can find shows a ball bearing.  

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3 hours ago, CW418A said:

 

What Bearing?  Would be helpful.  Everything I can find shows a ball bearing.  

 

 

It really doesn't matter at this point. You have a chance to save the motor now if you tear it down and check it over, but if you keep running it, its gonna show itself soon. I would't take a chance by running it if I were you. 

 

Let us know what you find for sure! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Randy

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Sorry, CW, I'm a K301 guy and know the insides of those well. The twins, not so much. Hoping you tear into it and let us know. Very curious down here in Georgia. :)

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14 hours ago, RandyLittrell said:

 

 

It really doesn't matter at this point. You have a chance to save the motor now if you tear it down and check it over, but if you keep running it, its gonna show itself soon. I would't take a chance by running it if I were you. 

 

Let us know what you find for sure! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Randy

I changed the oil for summer and I have not run it since and dont plan to until I find out what the heck these are.  No where have I been able to find out what its coming from.  Even talked to a our old dealer that sold and worked on them.   Nothing in any parts manual shows this type of thing.

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I think you should really look in the oil fill at the governor gear.  This is a pic i grabbed off the internet.  I'm willing to bet that one or both of the rivets that holds the weights in broke into pieces.  They wouldn't show up in a parts diagram and there's a chance a dealer wouldn't think of them unless they've been into these engines to replace the gear.5af4730c0f939_kohlermaggovgear.png.306e10e82a1bae5b9c8461d532ff6443.png

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I wonder if he has this roller thrust bearing in this engine.  I also think his 418A is at least a 1987.  Wheel Horse did not make a 418A until then.  Model #31-18KE01. :think:

 

    I went to this site and pulled up the M18 service manual.

 

https://power.kohler.com/na-en/engines/manuals

 

image.png

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That bearing is external on the engine. No Rock 'N Rye for you!!!  :ROTF:

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I was not sure about that, but there is nothing else that stands out in the manual that even resembles what he has in the picture.  Remember, he says they are only 1/4" long, and they do not appear to be broken.  Could they be falling out and into a drain pan?  :think:  Are they about the right size for this bearing??

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Thrust bearings are generally smaller than the size description he gave

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They would be smaller then 1/4" x 1/16"  ??  What lubes this bearing??  :think:  Is it possible that the needles could travel through the oil gallery??  I just don't see anything else it could be.  :think:

 

image.png

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55 minutes ago, diesel cowboy said:

I think you should really look in the oil fill at the governor gear.  This is a pic i grabbed off the internet.  I'm willing to bet that one or both of the rivets that holds the weights in broke into pieces.  They wouldn't show up in a parts diagram and there's a chance a dealer wouldn't think of them unless they've been into these engines to replace the gear.5af4730c0f939_kohlermaggovgear.png.306e10e82a1bae5b9c8461d532ff6443.png

 

39 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

I wonder if he has this roller thrust bearing in this engine.  I also think his 418A is at least a 1987.  Wheel Horse did not make a 418A until then.  Model #31-18KE01. :think:

 

    I went to this site and pulled up the M18 service manual.

 

https://power.kohler.com/na-en/engines/manuals

 

image.png

 

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Posted (edited)

That was what I could find too was the thrust bearing.  I have a total of four of them now.  Drained the new oil I put in and another one came out.  I also dont have the governor with the gear its all in a spring. The engine is the Kohler M18-24510 18 HP.   

 

Edited by CW418A
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I'm thinking that you could pull the fly wheel and open that housing without pulling the engine to see that bearing and not tearing it all apart...just to verify.  If it is that, you could count the bearings and the ones you were missing to see if you have them all.  Just thinking...I've done some car engines back in the 60's and two 8hsp Kohlers.  I am by no means an expert...actually, pretty dangerous.  :handgestures-thumbupright:  I just do not see anything else that matches or even looks like what you have going on.

   That link I put up is a great link for the manual.

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I think Steve is right about this being from the thrust bearing.  Unfortunately I do not think you can see it with out major disassembly.  It sits behind the sleeve bearing which in turn sits inside the crankshaft oil seal.  So it is in the crank case and you have to pull the end plate on the other side of the engine to get in there. You could pull the flywheel oil seal but I think all you would see would be the sleeve bearing sitting tightly on the crank. I am afraid major disassembly is in order.

crank.JPG

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Can't help much but Just chiming in to follow and say :WRS: CW Always nice to have another cheese head on board!

Maybe you should try rolling the motor over slowly then drain the oil again to see if anymore come out. That would pretty much confirm Steve's theory?

 

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:text-yeahthat:.... maybe even over fill it with diesel or kerosene and turn it over by hand (pull plugs) a bunch. Then with the oil fill open, drain to see if that flushes out any more .   :WRS:

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After what Paul said, I went back and looked at the putting it back together section.  I think Paul is right that you will really have to tear it down to see what you have.  I think you need to do that anyway.  What you might try...pull the plugs and take off the belts...turn it by hand and see what it feels like or listen for noises that you do not want to hear.  Don't force anything, you would still be moving pistons and valves...just no compression or transmission, mower deck, etc.  Wouldn't that be nice if you just had to replace that bearing??? 

   I'll hold off on the Rock & Rye until you see what you got.  :occasion-xmas:  :banana-linedance:

   In that link I put up...type   M18    in the search box and click on the Service Manual..

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