classicdmax 190 #1 Posted March 28, 2018 So I brought my horse to the job site the other day to put it to work. I had to relocate stones from an old, existing rock wall and was using my atv cart behind me to do so (sorry no pics) The tractor was running about 2 hours straight when running conditions started to go down hill....quickly. Symptoms were rough idle as well as the idle surging a bit...no more than a couple hundred rpm. Then suddenly as the engine started to quit it sounded off with 4 LOUD backfires. After letting it cool it turned over with surprisingly great ease as if no compression. Pulled the plug and had no spark. I was finally able to pick up another coil tonight so if I have time tomorrow I will try to swap out. Fortunately I was also working with the owners Ford 1100 and was able to lift and transport my tractor as I CANNOT get that damn tow valve open. Any other thoughts? 73’ 16h hydro k341s Non ethanol fuel (when I have it, started the day with half tank of the good stuff) recent plug recent coil and condenser/resistor recent solenoid strong battery Can’t think of anything else of value.... thanks fellas j- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 14,906 #2 Posted March 28, 2018 Could be a bad coil, as well as points, condenser, spark plug, or plug wire. K-series engine do turn over fairly easy due to the ACR (automatic compression release). I think you are on the right path, as a fuel problem would not have a "no spark" symptom. Be sure that you got the right coil. Kohler uses a coil with an internal resistor. (41 519 21-S) 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 14,906 #3 Posted March 28, 2018 Oh, good luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ericj 1,576 #4 Posted March 28, 2018 I had a Magnum 15 on a 312-A that would start and run fine till it got hot then it would sorta-of die down and backfire then run good for a while till it did it again. Talked to an old dealer and he told me it was the exhuast valve sticking. He said that he has already had to cut the head off and drive the valve down and out cutting it out piece by piece till he got it all out. Although thid dosen't explain the no spark, it could help explain the apparntly low compression, might be worth pulling head and checking it out, good luck eric j 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMC RULES 36,945 #5 Posted March 28, 2018 Since they're cheap... I'd get another new plug too. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
classicdmax 190 #6 Posted March 28, 2018 Thanks for all the replies i purchased a coil from tractor supply for I could t think of anywhere else nearby to go get one https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/tisco-ignition-coil-396547r93?cm_vc=-10005 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,735 #7 Posted March 28, 2018 That sounds like the right coil. I think I would replace the spark plug and take a look at the points too. Good luck. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 35,809 #8 Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) I would put a 12v jumper direcly from the battery to the coil. If it has spark then, the problem is in the ignition switch or the wiring. If you don't have spark with the jumper on, then change the cheapest components first in this order. First the condenser, then the points, then the coil. The backfire issue may be due to a carbon build up that has blocked the exhaust valve from closing entirely. Edited March 28, 2018 by Ed Kennell 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
classicdmax 190 #9 Posted March 28, 2018 Condenser and plug are the newest components replaced earlier this winter sorry to ask, but how exactly am I running a jumper? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 35,809 #10 Posted March 28, 2018 Connect a wire from the + battery post to the +coil post. The + coil post is marked, but it may be difficult to see. The - coil post should be connected to the points and condenser and the + coil post should be connected to the ignition switches (I) lug. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,735 #11 Posted March 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, classicdmax said: Condenser and plug are the newest components replaced earlier this winter sorry to ask, but how exactly am I running a jumper? Being the new kids on the block doesn't exempt them from suspicion. A new plug is a no-brainer any time there is a spark issue. the condenser can be disconnected for testing, If spark is present without it then it is shorted. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
classicdmax 190 #12 Posted March 28, 2018 Thanks again boys hopefully coil gets it running so I can load it on the trailer for I cannot get the tow valve released....then I could further diagnose when home so I’m not doing it here on site Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
classicdmax 190 #13 Posted April 3, 2018 Thanks again boys hopefully coil gets it running so I can load it on the trailer for I cannot get the tow valve released....then I could further diagnose when home so I’m not doing it here on site Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
classicdmax 190 #14 Posted April 3, 2018 Spent 5min this morning, new coil-no spark, new plug-no spark. So I moved onto the points. And to be honest I do not know what I was looking at because I’ve never actually ever set my hands on a set of points before....but cleaned the contact surfaces with sand paper then wala....got spark and she’s now running, loaded on trailer and will get it home to fine tune the points once I figure out what I actually need to do to them 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 46,803 #15 Posted April 3, 2018 I would just replace the points and condenser. I like the original Kohlers as they seem to last longer. Gap at 020. I get mine here http://www.psep.biz/store/kohler_points_condensers.htm but the other fellas may have other sources. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,147 #16 Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) In the future never clean your points with sand paper. it leaves grit which will cause the points to fail sooner. There is a specific points file but if you can sneak one of your wife's metal nail files out for a couple minutes that works also. Edited April 3, 2018 by pfrederi 1 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 46,803 #17 Posted April 4, 2018 Classic but OK for a "git her home" fix. Heard tell some guys run a dollar bill through them for quick clean but have no idea behind the theory on that. Maybe George is just lucky!?!? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BESTDOGEVER 218 #18 Posted April 4, 2018 Just a fyi I learned from my dad nearly 50 years ago that a dime is the exact thickness to set points if you have no tools. I saw him set up a dual point Chrysler distributor with said dime ,a screwdriver and pair of pliers and it ran better than what a so called mechanic and a high tech tune up scope could do. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge 3,462 #19 Posted April 5, 2018 US currency bills are a unique mixture of textiles and paper, it will remove oxide if it isn't too thick and put a nice polish on the points. But, it will also carry oils from human hands and that will quickly lead to oxidation quicker. Dedicated points files will not contaminate the contacts, but you always want to pull a clean, new strip of paper through a closed set to insure they are dead clean - that's what makes them last. There is also a static timing setup procedure for Kohler engines using the flywheel and an ohm meter, works very well and sets the timing per the engine's mechanical tdc and ignition advance - which helps with worn engines better than just using the .020" gap spec. Should be listed in the engine section of the manuals area on this forum.. Sarge 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 35,809 #20 Posted April 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Sarge said: There is also a static timing setup procedure for Kohler engines using the flywheel and an ohm meter, works very well and sets the timing per the engine's mechanical tdc and ignition advance - which helps with worn engines better than just using the .020" gap spec. Should be listed in the engine section of the manuals area on this forum.. Sarge I have found most of the older engines run better with a 0.017-19 " points gap. And using the ohm meter one had to be set at 0.015". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,735 #21 Posted April 5, 2018 7 hours ago, Ed Kennell said: I have found most of the older engines run better with a 0.017-19 " points gap. And using the ohm meter one had to be set at 0.015". >020 is just a starting point when installing a set of points, the points gap also sets your ignition timing. Kohler static_timing.pdf 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
classicdmax 190 #22 Posted April 6, 2018 Thanks again for all the info got tractor home today and couldn’t even get it off the trailer...died again. I have a new set of points in inventory and will try to replace and time according to aforementioned steps above...if I have time in between my sons soccer games this weekend 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
classicdmax 190 #23 Posted April 7, 2018 Ok, I’m going to vent a bit here. I’m trying to set timing using a digital multi meter, first off my meter doesn’t have a 1k setting, but has 2k so I tried that. THIS IS A BS TASK!!!! I saw no changes on meter when rotating engine clockwise as instructed. I cannot maintain gap when try to tighten set screw....even though I am using an additional slotted screw driver as instructed to hold gap setting. When I tighten set screw the contacts F’ING move every damn time. I do not have more than 2 hands. I do not have a third hand to hold feeler gauge while the other 2 hands are occupied try to maintain gap with 2 slotted screwdrivers. I cannot get tractor to fire. I cannot get spark at the points. I cannot get any positive results in timing as per above instructions. My tractor is on the trailer still in my driveway, come get it, it’s yours!!! Points S@CK rant over Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
classicdmax 190 #24 Posted April 7, 2018 Ok, after camping down and having a beer, I am still no better off. Points seem to be gapped at .015, spark hash on flywheel seems to be online with mark at the point when points break....but have no spark at points when turning over. Every once in while the tractor willshow signs of starting and begin to fire off, but it’s only brief. Any other suggestions? this is so discouraging Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,547 #25 Posted April 7, 2018 Have you cleaned the points with a file? Oxidation is the enemy. It should fire @ .015. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites