What have you done to your Wheel Horse today?

[Jhook 849]

56 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

           That milkshake look could be due to some moisture (condensation or water) in the oil.

Thats what it looked like to me. What would cause that? It lives outside, but the engine is very fresh (151 hours) is that normal to see?

[WHX?? 46,818]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

           That milkshake look could be due to some moisture (condensation or water) in the oil.

Me thinks you  nailed it Richard... this time of year it's a tough cookie to get them goodnhot to evap the moisture. A by product of burning any fossil fuel is water. The more efficiently it burns the more  water. That said the colder it is the more water it will produce. This is why car exhaust systems rot out. Run the horse till it's hot. ..don't start it and move it a couple feet and shut it off. This is really rough on overhead cam motors. 

You definitely got water in your oil Dr. Hook. 

[ohiofarmer 3,157]

    Been trying to finalize which of the three tractors is gonna get the snow blade. Just the little things that drive me nuts. The 145 has issues with the three way plug that goes in the rectifier. one of the wires is loose in the plug. then there is switch issues and so forth with the c-160. i may just pull the mower deck from the  working C-141 auto square hood and just go from there.  I am thinking of naming that tractor Eric. In hopes that he can get an auto trans ready so he does not have to use cinnamon horse with that manual

  i just realized that I forgot to tie the brake pedal down when testing the tractors. DOH!!!  That's about an hour out of my life. The weak point to powering the ignition system seems to be the connections to either the ammeter or the rectifier. They are hard to get to and were loose on more than one tractor.

[8ntruck 6,381]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

What do you think took this axle out of service?

 

 

Dang forum ate up my first reply!

 

Questions:

Did these two parts used to fit together?

These are out of a Wheel Horse manual transmission?

Did the tractor these were out of see snow plow duty?

Was the tractor used for pulling?

Is this a common failure for these components?

 

Initial analysis from picture:

The surface marks suggest multiple fatigue cracks started in the bottom of the axle splines grew together until they joined and caused axle failure.  The marks suggest that the primary load on the axle was torsional.

 

The fatigue crack initiation sights are not clear in the pictures.  I'll guess that the gear might have beaten or worn a notch into the axle spline, which created places for cracks to start.  Off chance there might have been a machining or heat treat defect involved as well.

 

Careless clutch engagement, frequent reversing, stick/slip of tires on snowy pavement, jerking on a rope or chain, or heavy load could produce axle loads contributing to a failure of this type.

 

I need to add a definition here.  Fatigue crack - a crack resulting from repeated application of a load smaller than a load that will bend the part. 

 

Examples of parts that see loads that cause fatigue cracks - connecting rods, wheels, axles, engine valves, springs, crankshaft, rocker arms.

 

This is basically a guess based on the picture.  More can be learned from direct inspection of the parts.

Edited December 16, 2020 by 8ntruck

[ebinmaine 63,218]

15 minutes ago, ohiofarmer said:

.  I am thinking of naming that tractor Eric. In hopes that he can get an auto trans ready so he does not have to use cinnamon horse with that manual. 

 

 . The weak point to powering the ignition system seems to be the connections to either the ammeter or the rectifier

Much appreciated. 

 

For the record I don't mind using the Cinnamon Horse. 

I'd like to have less wear on the belt from clutching but the rest of the experience is good. 

I do think though that once I get used to operating a hydro tractor for plowing I may become spoiled. 

 

 

When I rewire I remove ammeters and wire regulator with 3 individual wires. 

 

[Ed Kennell 35,857]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

What do you think took this axle out of service?

 

 

 

                                                IT BROKE

[Reddart 207]

Dropped the deck, changed the oil, put on the plow, chains, and weights. Getting ready for my first snow with the horse. 

[19richie66 16,954]

10 hours ago, 953 nut said:

What do you think took this axle out of service?

 

Powdered metal hadn’t cured enough. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by 19richie66
😎

[953 nut 51,794]

9 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

 

Dang forum ate up my first reply!

 

Questions:

Did these two parts used to fit together?

These are out of a Wheel Horse manual transmission?

Did the tractor these were out of see snow plow duty?

Was the tractor used for pulling?

Is this a common failure for these components?

 

Initial analysis from picture:

The surface marks suggest multiple fatigue cracks started in the bottom of the axle splines grew together until they joined and caused axle failure.  The marks suggest that the primary load on the axle was torsional.

 

The fatigue crack initiation sights are not clear in the pictures.  I'll guess that the gear might have beaten or worn a notch into the axle spline, which created places for cracks to start.  Off chance there might have been a machining or heat treat defect involved as well.

 

Careless clutch engagement, frequent reversing, stick/slip of tires on snowy pavement, jerking on a rope or chain, or heavy load could produce axle loads contributing to a failure of this type.

 

I need to add a definition here.  Fatigue crack - a crack resulting from repeated application of a load smaller than a load that will bend the part. 

 

Examples of parts that see loads that cause fatigue cracks - connecting rods, wheels, axles, engine valves, springs, crankshaft, rocker arms.

 

This is basically a guess based on the picture.  More can be learned from direct inspection of the parts.

right rear axle on my GT-14 let lose! My presumption was that the snap ring had broken allowing the axle to come out. I finally got around to tearing into it and  this is what I found. Fortunately there was no other damage done and I will be replacing bearing and seals to freshen it up

GT-14 was owned by a landscaping company and used with a front end loader and landscape rake for about forty years prior to the time I bought it. It has a limited slip differential, wheel weights and loaded tires, it hasn't been pampered. Since the failure took place in the differential housing I don't think weight was an issue, just torque and metal fatigue. Here is another picture of the pieces.

 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

right rear axle on my GT-14 let lose! My presumption was that the snap ring had broken allowing the axle to come out. I finally got around to tearing into it and  this is what I found. Fortunately there was no other damage done and I will be replacing bearing and seals to freshen it up

GT-14 was owned by a landscaping company and used with a front end loader and landscape rake for about forty years prior to the time I bought it. It has a limited slip differential, wheel weights and loaded tires, it hasn't been pampered. Since the failure took place in the differential housing I don't think weight was an issue, just torque and metal fatigue. Here is another picture of the pieces.

 

You think a crack that started very long ago?  I'd scrap it!  When will you haul to the street?  And your address again?

[Greentored 3,201]

Pulled the #26 carb off the hopped up K321 on Hoss, took a new #30, smoothed out the back side of the venturi, thinned the throttle and choke shafts, notched the fuel nozzle, finally stepped back and said "dude, enough is enough, it's a garden tractor" and threw it on for a trail test. It actually 'puts you back on the seat' to the point of needing to hang onto the wheel now when accelerating in high gear from idle

Strange issue that carried over from the stock #26- no response from the idle mixture screw. I can turn it all the way in and it still has a 'thump-a-thump-a', rich sounding idle. I even drilled a .100 hole in the butterfly, allowing me to close it further while maintaining idle, exposing less of the idle circuit holes. I even loosened the carb bolts, making a big vacuum leak and using the mixture screw to richen it up- to no avail.

Between the experimental cam grinding and big intake valve it has caused some strange carb 'signaling' and a very distinct idle, but it responds great, doesn't blow black smoke, and has an insane amount of grunt. Gonna chalk it up to 'thats what it likes' and leave it alone.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Greentored

[ebinmaine 63,218]

@Greentored

Scott when you get bored with that engine send it to Maine and I'll try it out in the forest for you. 

[Greentored 3,201]

41 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

@Greentored

Scott when you get bored with that engine send it to Maine and I'll try it out in the forest for you. 

I think it'd pull whole trees around if it had duals haha!

[ebinmaine 63,218]

1 minute ago, Greentored said:

I think it'd pull whole trees around if it had duals haha!

I'd be happy to try it out!!!

[WHX?? 46,818]

Me thinks you need one of these Green......

[Pullstart 59,750]

15 hours ago, 953 nut said:

What do you think took this axle out of service?

 

Hey Scott... @Greentored... prepare to have @8ntruckBill analyze your axles soon!  

[lynnmor 6,798]

Most Wheel Horse axles have needle bearings running right on the axles.  The bearing area is induction hardened and the remainder is left soft.  My thought is that the transition point is right where the failure occurred and the metal may be brittle there.  Years ago, Wheel Horse included axles that were completely heat treated for use with dual rear wheels.  I don't know the type of steel used with any of the axles.

[Greentored 3,201]

Really AM looking forward to meeting you all one day, putting names to faces, checking out your machines, and also getting a real world opinion on Hoss. Still 'kinda' new to WH and especially Kohler power and nothing to really compare it to. Could be just used to my 12s, maybe a stock 16hp would drag it across the field backwards

[Handy Don 10,641]

2 minutes ago, Greentored said:

Could be just used to my 12s, maybe a stock 16hp would drag it across the field backwards

IMHO, there are "bragging rights" and dragging right. If your horse does your job well, whatever it is, you are doing just fine!

[ebinmaine 63,218]

16 minutes ago, Greentored said:

Really AM looking forward to meeting you all one day, putting names to faces, checking out your machines, and also getting a real world opinion on Hoss. Still 'kinda' new to WH and especially Kohler power and nothing to really compare it to. Could be just used to my 12s, maybe a stock 16hp would drag it across the field backwards

Bring it on up to my place and we will hook it up to a 1300 lb Cinnamon Horse and see how it does..

 

I think it's fair to assume that your tractor makes more than 16 horse though.

[JCM 8,658]

Set up the 417-8 for Winter duty. This is a first for this machine other than trail rides in Winter. This plow has not been used in 18 years and was tired of looking at it and decided to repaint the front of the blade and cutting edge this past Summer. We shall see how it does for cleanup after this storm.

[ebinmaine 63,218]

6 minutes ago, JCM said:

storm

What's the forecast amount for you folks?

[JCM 8,658]

Right on the edge of 12+ coming up through SE New Hampshire.    

[ohiofarmer 3,157]

20 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Much appreciated. 

 

For the record I don't mind using the Cinnamon Horse. 

I'd like to have less wear on the belt from clutching but the rest of the experience is good. 

I do think though that once I get used to operating a hydro tractor for plowing I may become spoiled. 

 

 

When I rewire I remove ammeters and wire regulator with 3 individual wires. 

 

 I took your advice.

The ammeter had so much corrosion that it caused a voltage drop from 12.6 down to 8.5 or so. After going around that, the starter curcuit out of a brand new ignition switch still did not have the onions to trigger consistently the solenoid, so I wired the solenoid trigger  directly to the start circuit . Now the start position on the key works. We still had some cleaning to do, so the gas tank is not mounted, but now I am understanding that too many of the bakelite fittings and safety switches are just too unstable to work. If I decide they are important, it is time for a new wiring harness for the C-160.

[ebinmaine 63,218]

10 minutes ago, ohiofarmer said:

new wiring

I've done several. 

I've found harnesses so shredded by PO "repairs" I literally removed EVERYTHING and started fresh with higher quality and capacity wiring, right off the schematic. 

New grounds. Extra grounds. 

 

Solved.