522xi Hydro Problems

[Kurt-NEPA 756]

The hydro on my 522xi appears to be badly worn.  When cold it seems to run fine, but slower than it should.  When it warms up, it slows down.  Especially when going up hill.  On a hot summer day its at a crawl.  Its getting progressively worse.

 

My guess is that the Eaton 1100 is shot.

 

What I've done so far.

1. I changed the oil and filter.  WH filter and Mobil One 10W30
2. Adjusted the linkage in an attempt to speed things up.  No luck.
3. I parked with a front tire against a tree and pushed the motion control pedal forward.  The hdyro just slipped. I should spin the tires, but did not.
4. Checked what I could see.  No leaks and the hydro is clean.

 

So where do I go from here?  Anyone have any experience?

 

My options seem to be.

1. Find a used Eaton 1100, but they are scarce for the 5xi's.  I looks just like the 520H hydro, I wonder if they interchange.  Lots of 520H hydros out there.  Maybe the guts will interchange.  So far I can't find parts for it.
2. Find someone to rebuild this one, or if I can get parts, try to do it my self.
3. Swap the one from my 520xi and retire that tractor.
4. Purchase a new Eaton 1100, but at over $2000 that makes little sense.
5. Find a 5xi with a blown engine, purchase it and swap the hydros.

6. Try some heavier oil.  I have some 15W40.

 

I'm not sure what to do.  I might just swap the 520xi hydro into it.  It has a new engine in it and I would probably swap that too.  That way I make two tractors into one.

 

BTW, I love this 522xi.  The power steering is fantastic on these old arms.

 

Any thoughts anyone?

[shallowwatersailor 3,220]

I could be wrong but I believe that the Wheel Horse 1100 transaxles are different internally due to the 5xi Hi-N-Lo feature. The transmission is where you probably have the problem. That should be able to be rebuilt as it is just a big gear pump. The clearances have probably opened up. Other manufacturers used the same transmission, including Cub Cadet and even Kubota, on their tractors.

 

[Kurt-NEPA 756]

Thanks for the comment Sailor.  I think you right about the Eaton 1100 being different.  Everything points to a badly worn unit.  I would try a rebuild if I can locate parts.

 

Anyone know what other tractors used this transmission.  That would really help in finding a used transmission.

[bmsgaffer 2,071]

I believer the pump unit internals are the same, but they may have used different bearing arrangement with shaftdrive vs belt drive and bevel gear on drive side as opposed to straight gear. I vote you get one and give it a shot! I think my eaton is similarly abused, but it's not as bad yet.

 

These xi tractors put a bit more wear and tear/pressure on that eaton that easily lasted 40 years in a c series or 300/400/500 series. They wont last as long in our xi's so we will have to figure out how to recondition them or find reasonably priced parts.

 

I plan on integrating a oil cooler into mine for my next modifications. I think especially with power steering that hydro oil gets really toasty!

[Kurt-NEPA 756]

Thanks bmsgaffer.  I suspect you are right about the input and out put shafts.  I'm thinking that the internals may swap with a 520H unit.  Might just try that this winter.

 

I suspect this thing is running really hot.  Especially since it gets worse with heat.  I like that oil cooler idea.  Kohler make one for their V-twins that might adapt nicely.

 

I just cleaned the power steering filter, just in case that was the issue.  But it was nice and clean.  The only short term thing left to do is to try a heaver oil.  The manual says I can use 10W-40, but I'm thinking of some 15W-40 Shell Rotella.  I have a gallon or two of it.

[Dennys502 246]

The Hi - Lo is a gear change - nothing to do with the pump. The output shaft on the pump may be different. I haven't had a 520 hydro apart.

I will do some research on it.

[Kurt-NEPA 756]

My biggest concern is the output side of Eaton 1100 transmission (pump).  I wish I could find some pictures of the 5xi units.  If I remember correctly, the 520H transmission has a splined shaft where it connects into the gear box. I think I could adapt the input side if need be.

 

I just changed the oil and put 15W-40 in it.  Cold it seems to work just fine.  I just pulled up a steep hill without issue.  I need to mow for an hour or two and see what happens.

 

[Dennys502 246]

I have looked over the prints and it looks like the input and output are the same.

I can't post the drawings but if you pm me with your email I can email them to you.

 

 

 

[Kurt-NEPA 756]

Fantastic Denny - PM Sending

[shallowwatersailor 3,220]

Take a look at this. It shows the internals. There is also a troubleshooting flow diagram.

 

I looked at the parts diagrams for a 5xi 1100 and a 520-H 1100. The output shaft has a different number. The 5xi turns the input 90 degrees via a bevel gear.

 

On the topic of a cooler, a small power steering cooler might be installed between the sump and pump on the rubber line.

 

http://truturf.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/old_manuals_Eaton-11-Hydrostatic-Manual.pdf

Edited September 30, 2017 by shallowwatersailor

[Kurt-NEPA 756]

Nice find Sailor.  That manual lays out the disassembly/assembly really nice.  Make it look do-able.

 

Thanks much.  Now I have some studying to do.

[953 nut 65,016]

          Great manual.    

[Kurt-NEPA 756]

Update:  I've spent the last several weeks studying all the great manuals and drawings that were shared.  I'm starting to understand how this thing works.  Before I when the hydro route I decided to check everything out.  New oil, filter, and serviced the PS filter, and then I adjusted the linkage according to the manual.  No help.  It would still move at half speed max and slow on hills.  Getting desperate, I removed the "Smart Steering" linkage and got the full speed back - SUCCESS!!!!

 

I think something is off on my linkage in the back.  It was binding up the "Smart Steering" and slowing the tractor.  I still have work to do, but I have full speed and a working tractor again.  

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

Kurt

[bmsgaffer 2,071]

I'm glad to hear that! It gives me hope that mine will come back after some fiddling. I never readjusted everything after I did the smart-steer delete kit. 

[TT-(Moderator) 1,169]

Obviously this is my old 522.

The oil & filter were just changed and P/S filter was cleaned when I installed the transaxle ~ which was only 1.5 hours before you bought it.
The tractor that transaxle came out of has 453 hours on the meter and I believe it to be accurate.
I thought I had the linkage correctly adjusted upon installation, but apparently I was wrong.
Sorry for the trouble.

[Kurt-NEPA 756]

No worries Terry!  I thought maybe the Smart Steer linkage was out., but it was adjusted according to the manual.  I'm still playing with this, but I have maxed out the linkage.  Then I checked the the engine speed.  It was a bit less than 3300 rpm.  under the spec of 3400.  At first I thought this was insignificant.  But I checked the Eaton 1100 manual and that said 3600 rpm and Kohler says 3750 rpm.  So I increased the engine speed to 3580 and what a difference in ground speed.  Its like a different tractor.  I'm going to run it this way for a bit.  But I am pleased at the moment.  Time to mount the two stage blower .

 

BTW,  I love this tractor.  Thanks Terry. 

[TT-(Moderator) 1,169]

I do remember it seeming slow, but - compared to my pewter Horse - they all are! 😁

 

Here's the reason I swapped transaxles in your 522.....  a really nasty right axle:

 

 

For those who are curious......  the layout of the innards of the xi tranz:

 

Input bevel gears, hi-lo cluster, and primary reduction shaft:

 

With the exception of the square vs. woodruff key, the axles appear to be the same as the "classic" 8 speed and Eaton hydro tranz 1.125" pieces. 

 

[Kurt-NEPA 756]

Wow Terry.  I remember seeing the hub that went with that axle.  It was just a bad.  All of that from a leaking seal.  How could somebody abuse a nice tractor like that?

 

What are you going to do with it?  If the axles are the same, they might swap out with those from a 520H.  They sure do look the same.  If you decide to scrap it, I might want the hydro.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,169]

I'm fixing it for in the '00 520xi ~ hopefully before winter.

I haven't decided on using the Honda v-twin or rebuilding the Kohler though.

I guess I need to get busy. 😎

 

 

[Sarge 3,470]

When the cold front we just got here gets your way - you'll move faster , lol . I went into fall overdrive yesterday getting stuff ready - going to freeze my butt off finishing it today . Saturday night here they are calling for a hard freeze and a lot of wind again - just what we need .

Sarge

[Kurt-NEPA 756]

2 hours ago, TT said:

I'm fixing it for in the '00 520xi ~ hopefully before winter.

I haven't decided on using the Honda v-twin or rebuilding the Kohler though.

I guess I need to get busy. 😎

 

 

I thought that is what you were planning.  That Honda would be a beast in there, but will be harder to fit up.  Especially the muffler.

 

Best of luck!

 

[Gibbs 0]

I have a 2000 toro/wheel horse 522XI tractor with a little over 700 hours on it. I use it year round. Mowing as well as moving snow with a 42" snow blower.

The old girl is getting tired i am afraid. 

 

A little back ground on maintenance of the 522XI. I've always used Kohler 10W-30 synthetic blend oil in the engine and in the transaxle.  I change the oil and filter at least once a year. The oil never gets dirty in the motor or the transmission. *( Just doing a Google search (today) on who makes the oil, AI says it's made by  "Warren Oil Connection: The embossed "W" logo or specific bottle codes (like "A08" and "E08") are standard identifiers used by Warren Oil to track production plants and dates.") Mine says E08 on the bottom of the bottle. Warren oil company doesn't get the best reviews... ??? 

 

Two yeas ago we had a bad snow storm. We had snow drifts about 36" high in parts of the driveway. Normally I don't need to put the chains on, but for this snow I did. 

Like a dummy I pushed the hydrostat transmission hard rocking it from forward to reverse when I would get struck in a drift. 

 

Problem? Ground speed is less than it used to be. Even from a cold start. When mowing grass it slows after the transmission pumps oil warms up. (My back yard, on one side, borders a street with about a 5ft berm 150ft long. The far back yard has a dry detention basin. A lot of up and down hills. 

 

The smart steering: 

I disconnected that last year. It turns out it was quite easy to do. Using this video it was anyway.

.

 

I had hopes that would solve my slower ground speed problem. It did not.

 

I have tried about everything I have read on this forum as well things found on the Web. Including checking the power steering filter. I had cleaned it several years ago. I pulled it out and cleaned it again. It was still clean... The oil never gets dirty...

Air in the power steering lines/system? I've turned the steering wheel back and forth umpteen times. No change. I've done countless figure 8s in the driveway, no change.  

 

Funny thing about the power steering... When I turn, it doesn't matter if I turn left or right, the ground speed is noticeably faster compared to going straight. ??? And its not my imagination. Any ideas?

 

Thicker oil? :

I've read on this forum and others on the Net to try 40 weight, even 50 weight oil.

Did some reading on good oils to try in the transmission. AMS Oil for one. Expensive stuff.

 

Well I read about this oil. Normally $14.99 a quart on sale at NAPA for $9.99 this month.

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40.

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-racing-4t-10w-40

 

I changed the oil and filter yesterday. 

Verdict? I mowed the backyard with the new oil. Ground speed was slightly faster. Turning speed was faster. After mowing the back yard I did several figure 8 turns on the driveway. Ground speeds on turns is definitely faster...

 

Did I make a mistake using a full synthetic oil?  My thought, there may be some corrosion in the hydro pump. 

 

Any ideas?

 

  . 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 12:12 AM by Gibbs

[bmsgaffer 2,071]

There is a way to adjust the hydro (I believe you have to jack up the back and remove one of the tires to get to it?). Its in one of the manuals published here on redsquare for the 522xi. 

 

Ultimately to get my speeds all the way back I had to replace the hydro cam plate that's back on the transmission (Its possible to do without removing the transmission, its just really difficult) as mine was very well worn and I also replaced as many loose bushings on all the linkages up to the pedal as I could. Unfortunately due to the smart-turn system being mechanical, there are a TON of linkages to go from the pedal back to the hydro cam plate. Its far more complicated than it should have been. 

 

The final possibility is that its just tired, but with only 700 hours I would doubt that is the case. 

 

ALSO: have someone take a good look at the axles inside the hubs when going backward and forward. The woodruff keys tends to really dig out the axles (and sometimes break) on these heavy rigs. You may need to do some repair if there is any movement found there between the axles inside the hubs. 

[Gibbs 0]

12 hours ago, bmsgaffer said:

ALSO: have someone take a good look at the axles inside the hubs when going backward and forward. The woodruff keys tends to really dig out the axles (and sometimes break) on these heavy rigs. You may need to do some repair if there is any movement found there between the axles inside the hubs. 

 

I've already been there. The left transmission axle seal had been slightly leaking for a while. The spring after the bad snow, (post above), I decided to install a new one. When I jacked up the back of the tractor I found there was play in the axle wheel hub and the axle. 

Axle was in good shape thank goodness. key way slot on axle was ok. I had to replace the axle wheel hub and of course bought a new key. 

 

The Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40.oil has helped. Ground speed has increased somewhat with use. (Just a guess it may be cleaning parts inside the pump. Thicker oil may be helping as well.)Turning ground speed faster as well. So much so I really have to hold on with the peddle to the metal, so to speak...

 

I have been using Google AI to help out. Goggle AI uses this forum a lot for references. When asked about the ground speed increasing in turns, (with the Smart Turn deleted), AI talks about the hydraulic charge pump could be increasing the ground speed in turns. I assume that's inside the Eaton model 11 hydro pump. Deep inside?

 

Probably my next move is to pull the rear fender unit off the tractor and look at the  hydro cam plate and see how it looks.(I can see it through the hole in the frame on the right side just in front of the rear wheel. From what I can see it moves freely with the movent of the forward reverse foot pedal. Also I will make sure the unused "Smart Turn" linkage is not getting in the way.

Edited 1 hour ago by Gibbs

[bmsgaffer 2,071]

Be careful with any information obtained from AI. I deal with it a fair bit in my job and it has its place but its wrong a lot. 

 

The charge pump merely feeds pressure into the variable displacement pump for the hydrostat and the pressure for the hydraulic lift. If you downloaded a fast GPS app, I would be willing to bet you are not actually speeding up while turning, it just feels that way (or the smart turn delete is working backwards somehow). Like i said, it's a complicated system of linkages and has many points for wear and failure. 

 

Start with the hydro adjustment: the service manual is a good read here: 

Then check the linkages

Then check the cam plate and follower nut (its moves smoothly, but the grove and nut get worn and doesn't push the hydrostat lever far enough any more). You will have to pull the fender off, but then you will find its tucked down beside the frame-rail.