SCAVENGERGIRL 10 #1 Posted August 8, 2017 I'm in the market for a small tractor but I know nothing about them, so, I'm here for advice. Any helpful input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! I have virtually no yard, so the mower deck is a not important to me. What I primarily want it for is hauling heavy stuff and snow blowing a 1/4 mile lane. I would also like to be able to push dirt around with it. A bucket loader would be awesome, however, I don't think I can afford it. Of course I have a budget, trying to stay under $500, but that seems impossible to do with a snow blower included. I spotted this on Craigslist am trying to determine if it's worthwhile. The price it's listed for is $850 but said he could do $650 when I offered $500 and asked for a bottom line. I'm concerned about it being 8hp & 2wd (according to http://www.tractordata.com/lawn-tractors/000/4/4/445-wheel-horse-c-81.html) " Wheel horse C-81 newer rebuild engine but needs a fuel pump and a pit cock in the tank comes with snow blower mower deck and lawn cart. " 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 18,397 #2 Posted August 8, 2017 Unless your drive is a steep hill 4wd is unnecessary, wheel weights and chains work. 8hp is going to be working hard if you get much snow, It will do it but you may be in low range and it will take time. If you get real snow those wings on the blower will be too much, but they come off (The do not appear to factory). Check the top corner of blower body for cracks/breaks, those big wings will put a lot of stress on it.. The fuel pump is an issue. A new Kohler pump is over $100 (might use that to negotiate) Also if you are mechanically inclined you can put on an electric pump for a lot less $25-30. The leaky fuel cock is a cheap fix.. You might be able to swap the deck if it is in decent shape for a snow/dozer blade. She will push some dirt/snow and haul about anything you want...is the cart Wheel Horse or after market? 4wd or a loader are way out of the price range you are considering. Who did the rebuild...there are rebuild and rebuilds. Would want to see the deck and the cart and make sure the blower isn't cracked and that it works. If the deck blower and cart are in good shape the engine is good $650 is not way out of line... Location also plays where are you??? 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 23,113 #3 Posted August 8, 2017 Welcome to Red Square. If the rebuild of the engine...the $650 for the tractor, blower, cart and deck sounds like a pretty good deal. It has the 2 attachments that you want...blower and cart. Those 2 things alone are around $500. You have the low range in that manual transmission...you should have no trouble blowing snow. Not sure where in the snow belt you are, but that will handle 12" of dry snow with ease. Horse looks like it will clean up real good. Figure about $20 to fit the pet cock in the tank, and fuel pumps are not expensive. Ha....Paul and I hit the send button at the same time. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCAVENGERGIRL 10 #4 Posted August 8, 2017 Thank you! I'm located in central Pennsylvania, we get some heavy snow at times, but it's not the norm. I don't know much beyond what's listed in the ad, I wasn't sure what to even ask! I don't mind poking around, but I have never worked on an engine beyond regular maintenance, so I'll likely try to replace the parts myself and call for help if I can't get it to start. I think I'll go check it out, get some of my own photos try to restrain myself from giving him all my $$ 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aldon 4,828 #5 Posted August 8, 2017 I think if you feel 4wd is necessary you will need to raise your budget quite a bit as well. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SylvanLakeWH 27,783 #6 Posted August 8, 2017 Looks like a good one. They are easy to work on... If you get it, you are in the right place for advice on repairs and maintenance. These guys know everything about WH tractors! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 23,113 #7 Posted August 8, 2017 Plus, we have members all over Penn...you can check our member map above. Do you have a fairly level drive way?? If so, that horse will blow snow the way it is. If not chains will help and are easy to find. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 58,366 #8 Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) This is the time of year to buy a snow blower, couple of months from now and buyers would be lined up at the seller's door. I wouldn't hesitate if it runs well and drives well. The fuel shutoff is an easy fix and an electric fuel pump is the way to go. Edited August 8, 2017 by 953 nut 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee1977 7,057 #9 Posted August 8, 2017 I'm not from snow country, but I think it's under powered for a 1/4 mile lane. If you have to go to low range with the snow blower it's going to take too long. It would be more suited for a 100 to 200 foot drive. I think you would need to double the HP for that long a drive. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benji756 341 #10 Posted August 8, 2017 I bought my C-81 last fall and it has become my go to tractor. I find that I will get it out to push snow before I will get my 520H out to use the snow blower. I think you will be pleased with it and it seems to be more tractor than I thought a 8 hp would be. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 40,819 #11 Posted August 8, 2017 to the You will find all the help you need on this forum. The 8 HP with the 8 speed will have plenty of power to push or pull any load. The limiting factor on these tractors is traction and with chains and some added weight on the rear, plowing snow should not be a problem. Turning a snow blower is a different story. IMO 12HP is the minimum required to effectively operate a blower. I live in SC Pa, and I do have a blower on a 20HP tractor for those 1/year storms that come up the coast and pump 1-3 feet of snow in off the Atlantic. I think an 8 HP would struggle to handle one of these noreasterners. Most of the snows though are handled easily with the plow on my 12 HP machine. Snow plows are readily available. I have one for sale now and would be willing to trade it and a set of chains for a working deck . If you do purchase the C-81 and are interested in a trade, please PM me as it is against the forum rules to negotiate deals in this thread. Buy, sell, and trades must be done in the classified section. It is tough to evaluate a tractor with only a picture, but it does appear to be well cared for and probably stored inside. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 71,126 #12 Posted August 8, 2017 1 hour ago, benji756 said: I bought my C-81 last fall and it has become my go to tractor. I find that I will get it out to push snow before I will get my 520H out to use the snow blower. I think you will be pleased with it and it seems to be more tractor than I thought a 8 hp would be. Agreed. I have a B80.... take your time and it will be enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMC RULES 37,153 #13 Posted August 9, 2017 If you're interested... in making short work of your 1/4 mile lane there. Inquire about that old Ford there in the pict behind the . 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCAVENGERGIRL 10 #14 Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, AMC RULES said: If you're interested... in making short work of your 1/4 mile lane there. Inquire about that old Ford there in the pict behind the . When I 1st bought the property in February, an old plow truck was exactly what I was looking for. After some time (& budgeting), I realized that I needed something with more versatility. I considered an ATV & even just a walk behind blower, but I think a tractor is going to give me the most bang for my buck. I really want something to help me do some 'heavy lifting'. The driveway is pretty level, so nothing steep for actual snow removal. My concern with plowing it is that it's stone topped & on a hillside, some parts of the bank are very steep and drop off a good 20+ feet. I don't want to risk damaging the downhill edge OR sliding off and having a tractor roll over top of me. I decided a nice neat snow blown path down the middle should do, at least until I have a few years to do something about the lane itself. I'm the type to go out and shovel snow multiple times, either for the joy of being in the snow or just so it's easier to do later on, but I definitely want something that will be able to handle a 3' snow if need be. I don't mind having to patiently work thru it (better than breaking my back) but I definitely need something able to handle it. I do want a plow still. I'm trying to level & fill in some low lying areas and I think a plow would really help. I'm not sure what the deck is just yet, but I haven't used my push mower yet this year so the deck may well be up for grabs. I think I'm getting the impression this would probably be good enough for what I need, for now, so long as it runs once those parts are replaced. I'm not sure how to determine if that's the real reason it won't start outside of taking the seller's word for it. Any suggestions on things to check to help me determine if that's it's biggest problems? Do C-81s have any popular recurring issues I should expect to run into? I realize a 40 year old tractor is bound to have some problems, I'm just hoping to avoid thousands of dollars of repairs. Very useful comments, thank you! Edited August 9, 2017 by SCAVENGERGIRL 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Retired Wrencher 5,664 #15 Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) SCAVENGERGIRL I think the above post put you on the right path But I would consider something around 12 hp with a blower. AS said above the 8 will be working hard to keep up .May be you can sell the truck to invest into a better tractor. I thinking $600 to $800 should in the ball park. And just my I am not a fan of the engine cradle mount. to me this robs power. Just keep looking Good luck. Edited August 9, 2017 by Retierd Wrencher 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,771 #16 Posted August 9, 2017 Love my 8hp but I'd want more hp for the blower. I'd consider selling the blower and buying a blade or buying it AND buying a bigger hp with a blade and swapping attachments. With chains she'll push snow good especially if you can plow as it falls but 6" of wet or maybe a foot of heavy will make you wish you'd caught it earlier. Just don't expect too much of a 8hp rider/blower. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 15,964 #17 Posted August 9, 2017 My neighbor had a C-81 with a snow blower. It was fine on level ground and downhill, but did not have the power it needed to blow snow on the uphill. He replaced the engine with a K321 (14hp) and has no problems now. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ohiofarmer 3,355 #18 Posted August 9, 2017 Something does not line up here. The guy advertises a rebuilt motor, but it needs a petcock and fuel pump. You think WOW a newly refurbished motor. If those little issues keep that motor from running, then the rebuild DID NOT happen. That makes 500.00 a lot to spend. BTW , if i advertised a rebuild, i could show you the receipts! I wonder if the seller has receipts for this one? Take a battery and jumper batteries to the tractor. Spray some carb cleaner into the carb by taking off the air cleaner. Make sure that tractor STARTS.Base your offer on what you can see and what can be verified. If a tractor does not run, I might give $200, but only if it has parts I need badly for something. Be careful out there 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge 3,464 #19 Posted August 9, 2017 My thoughts exactly - no one in their right mind would put the money into a proper engine rebuild on a Kohler and then dump it as a whole in non-running condition . Some folks think a couple new gaskets and a coat of paint makes it rebuilt - that is not the case . Done correctly by a machine shop and the cost of parts - basic rebuild if it just needed new rings would run around $400 , new piston/rod if needed adds a couple hundred more . I call bs on the seller's description - something isn't right there . If it's a true recent rebuild , there should be machine shop receipts and a parts list and possibly a warranty - I doubt he has those things . 8hp pulling that blower with no snow will struggle a bit due to the rotating mass of the blower . You'd be far better off with a strong 12hp powered C-series like a C-120 or bigger , especially with a hill involved . If you want to do blade work on dirt or push snow - be aware that a manual transmission tractor is going to require a pretty stout left arm/shoulder to lift the blade - you'll also have to push against the lift handle for any down pressure to get the blade to cut as well . An automatic/hydrostat with a lift cylinder installed would be far more useful for what you describe - plus you can use a solid lift link to provide down pressure on the front blade . Oh , and lifting even a small single stage blower (as in the pictures) is a challenge with a manual lift but there are assist springs available . If your driveway is really steep , I'd hunt a C-120 or bigger in the automatic versions - that also gives you the option of a rear clevis hitch that can do lifting and use box scrapers and such for dirt/rock work . These tractors , even the smaller engined versions like you are considering are amazingly capable . Rear weights , chains and some learning it will go nearly anywhere and handle a lot of ground engagement work . The 8hp Kohler is a very underrated engine - it has a lot more torque than any other in that class and that's why it can do so much with such a low hp rating . Personally , given your description of needs - I'd recommend that you pass on this one , not to mention the whole engine description in non-running condition . No honest seller would sell a non-running rebuilt Kohler - that costs real money and being non-running cuts what they spent on it in half real quick for overall value . I'd bet it got at most a cheap knockoff set of rings , maybe a new head gasket and who knows if it was reassembled correctly or the rod checked for fit - wouldn't give that one a second look on it's best day . Sarge 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clueless 3,129 #20 Posted August 9, 2017 27 minutes ago, Sarge said: My thoughts exactly - no one in their right mind would put the money into a proper engine rebuild on a Kohler and then dump it as a whole in non-running condition . Some folks think a couple new gaskets and a coat of paint makes it rebuilt - that is not the case . Done correctly by a machine shop and the cost of parts - basic rebuild if it just needed new rings would run around $400 , new piston/rod if needed adds a couple hundred more . I call bs on the seller's description - something isn't right there . If it's a true recent rebuild , there should be machine shop receipts and a parts list and possibly a warranty - I doubt he has those things . 8hp pulling that blower with no snow will struggle a bit due to the rotating mass of the blower . You'd be far better off with a strong 12hp powered C-series like a C-120 or bigger , especially with a hill involved . If you want to do blade work on dirt or push snow - be aware that a manual transmission tractor is going to require a pretty stout left arm/shoulder to lift the blade - you'll also have to push against the lift handle for any down pressure to get the blade to cut as well . An automatic/hydrostat with a lift cylinder installed would be far more useful for what you describe - plus you can use a solid lift link to provide down pressure on the front blade . Oh , and lifting even a small single stage blower (as in the pictures) is a challenge with a manual lift but there are assist springs available . If your driveway is really steep , I'd hunt a C-120 or bigger in the automatic versions - that also gives you the option of a rear clevis hitch that can do lifting and use box scrapers and such for dirt/rock work . These tractors , even the smaller engined versions like you are considering are amazingly capable . Rear weights , chains and some learning it will go nearly anywhere and handle a lot of ground engagement work . The 8hp Kohler is a very underrated engine - it has a lot more torque than any other in that class and that's why it can do so much with such a low hp rating . Personally , given your description of needs - I'd recommend that you pass on this one , not to mention the whole engine description in non-running condition . No honest seller would sell a non-running rebuilt Kohler - that costs real money and being non-running cuts what they spent on it in half real quick for overall value . I'd bet it got at most a cheap knockoff set of rings , maybe a new head gasket and who knows if it was reassembled correctly or the rod checked for fit - wouldn't give that one a second look on it's best day . Sarge Aw, the newer, fresh, or recent, rebuilt engine, that you can't see or hear run, and only needs a couple of thing to get it running on CL . All of these guys are giving you good advice, and most will tell you $650.00 (still 150.00 more than you got) for the whole package is not that bad. Most of these guy, have the knowledge, and the tools to work on these tractors, and dare I say most enjoy it. If this is not you, then a non running tractor is probably not what you need, even if you can get it for $500.00 you still don't have what your wanting unless you put more money in it. Even if you get the said newer rebuilt engine running, blowing snow for a 1/4 mile a few times, will let you know if it was done right. Some of these guys are say that the 8hp will blow snow, you just have to take it slow, low first gear, or low second gear, that would take around 20 to 30 minuets per pass, while for some that's seat time, for me that's way to damn long to be outside in the cold. Two things are in you favor, you still have a few months before that stuff starts falling and you live in the WH land of plenty, save up and keep looking, their out there, now where did I put my coffee. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 23,113 #21 Posted August 9, 2017 I like what these last guys are saying about receipts for an engine re-build. I just rebuilt one 8 horse Kohler last fall and another one this last spring. I tore it down and cleaned it, I found a very good machine shop (used to be a Kohler dealer) and they were reasonable. They charged me just over $100 to bore the cylinder, turn the crank journal and grind the valves. In both engines, I replaced the piston, rings, rods and a couple of valves. Parts for each engine was around $80 +. I put the engines back together. I have receipts for all of the builds. Maybe Sarge's prices are the shop doing all the labor also? Anyway, I think I missed the part where the horse did not run...if you know what you are doing...have a look, but I think you may want to keep looking. Take a look in our "For Sale Section", maybe you will find something there. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike'sHorseBarn 3,166 #22 Posted August 9, 2017 I'm in central pa too! If it was me and i had $500 to put toward a tractor, it would be something a little more than a C-81. Don't get me wrong, it is a good machine, but maybe a little under powered for blowing off a 1/4 mile driveway. Your're also going to want something that has a 2 stage blower to get rid of all that snow. Details on the tractor appear to be a little sketchy as well so if it was me I would keep looking. We still have a little time until the snow starts flying and i will keep my eyes open for you as well since you are close to me. Mike 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 18,397 #23 Posted August 9, 2017 Obviously more Horsepower would do the job faster and easier and so would a 2 stage blower...BUT Life is frequently a trade off between time and money. If you have more money you can buy things that get the job done quicker and easier...if you do not then it will take more time and more work. A20 hp 2 stage hydro would be an ideal choice...anyone got one they want to sell for $500-650???? The C 81 will get the job done. May take longer after the first pass you can adjust the speed based on the amount of "bite" you take. Besides it beat a shovel As to not running tell him put a fuel pump on it and demo it... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 58,366 #24 Posted August 9, 2017 15 minutes ago, pfrederi said: not running tell him put a fuel pump on it and demo it. An alternative would be to have the seller hook up a temporary gravity feed tank to prove that the engine will run. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ericj 1,578 #25 Posted August 10, 2017 The guys have brought up a lot of good points, there are a LOT of wheel horses on C/L in York, Lancaster, Harrisburg area for you to choose from and several in your price range and in higher horse power to boot. I say keep looking don't rush it, if it was meant to be it will be. good luck eric j 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites