5,6,700 series questions

[Sarge 3,462]

Ok, looking to buy a couple and got to make up my mind here quick . Something I don't understand about the differences in the 5-800 series are some of the numbers - I know the engine size digit is the first one and last digit is the year . But, why are there say - 702 and 753's and what are the differences in them ?

Looking at a 702 and 753, might get both but they are quite a drive and want to make sure they are correct at least to where it's relatively easy to restore . Don't mind re-painting or even some welding repairs including closing up previous owner's hole-hunting work . While it would be nice to have a '62 and '63 both in the stable it's not really necessary and I'm limited on storage space pretty bad . Might have to build an elevator so I can start stacking them in the sheds ....

Also, in the pic gallery there seems to be several opinions on the seats - some have round pans and others had the square pan seats - so which is correct ? I do know the front axles have the angled beam design and use top kingpin-style steering , rear axle uses the old style 3-bolt hubs . Is there a way to tell if the wheels are incorrect, either front or rear ?

Sarge

[Sarge 3,462]

BTW-how can a guy research the serial tags ? The 702 is numbered 62-2348 , but doesn't seem to bang any bells on Toro's site .

Sarge

[CasualObserver 3,406]

BTW-how can a guy research the serial tags ? The 702 is numbered 62-2348 , but doesn't seem to bang any bells on Toro's site .

Sarge

In short, you can't. Toro won't give it to you, and the old records are filed away and un-published. What are you hoping to find out anyway? Serial numbers from back then didn't have any special coding or anything, they were literally just sequential production numbers. (the 62- prefix does indicate that it's a 1962 tractor... do a search for serial numbers you'll find a couple of threads about that.)

To get at your other question.. typically the 0 means recoil start and the 5 meant electric start. In the case of the 701 and 702 however they were electric start tractors. The differences between a 702 and a 753 are minimal. The most notable is the steering upgrade between the two years. Most 1963 models received a new steering setup that allowed a tighter turning radius. I say most, because the 603 retained the old setup and steers a BIG circle. Otherwise, I don't think there's much different. Maybe a few other minor cosmetics, but nothing else big I can think of. If I'm forgetting something, others will have some more input. :thumbs:

[Sarge 3,462]

That's a big help, thanks . I'm more familiar with the post-65 units that I already have. My only quest on the serial was to determine it is in fact what is advertised . At least the prefix does say it's a 1962 tractor, that's a good start .

I did not know about the wide steering radius on early models, I assume this is on the high-angle beam axle in '62 and earlier models ? On the '63 753's I've looked at they have the later style nearly-straight front axle - that makes sense .

The seat deal bothers me some, as well as the 702's later-model steering wheel . Those two items can bring big money in good condition and don't show up all that often that I've seen , anyway . I'm about to try the restoration kit from Eastwood on a couple of the 1277's wheels , one has been welded and the other that I just bought has a huge lengthwise crack around it's circumference . We'll see how that goes...

Any other hints ?

Sarge

[Michael Bullington 5]

702 and 753 are basically the same tractor, with a few minor changes. these both had the square pan seats...Serial numbers will not help and wheels maybe someone else can help...I just know 8's on front and 12's on rear

p.s Ive seen 63 models with the 62 prefix

[TT-(Moderator) 1,129]

To the "untrained eye" the 702 and the 753 look like the same tractor, but there's probably as many differences between them as there are similarities.

They do share the same hood, steering wheel and I believe the upper steering shaft and lower steering support, and most everything from the transaxle mounting plate rearward. The engines are very similar, but slight differences (like the S/G belt guard) also exist.

[Michael Bullington 5]

okay heres what I can think of for differences from 702 to 753

front axle

Tie rod

clutch pedal

gas tank

height adj knob

dash

There was some change with the engine, but I dont know what it was

I probably forgot something but thats a start

TT was is the S/G belt guard? :thumbs:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,129]

The frame, hoodstand, and implement lift lever assembly are all different, and I did mention the S/G belt guard on the engine.

I suppose if I'd go look, I could find some more.

[Sarge 3,462]

Great info guys, much appreciated . Looking over the pics closer now reveals several parts on the 702 that are incorrect , not all that big of a deal but nonetheless..

That's a great shot of all the round hoods, nice to be able to compare them side by side . Like the stacking idea , might have to do that in the one shed ..

The '62's front axle design - is it weaker due to the casting design by any means or just different ? I notice that the 702 I'm interested in has a seat identical to the 552 in that pic from TT ...as well as a round style later-model deck .

Again, appreciate the info, I've read/studied until my eyes are ready to bleed ...

Sarge

[TT-(Moderator) 1,129]

The early "stepped" axle was more prone to breakage at the bolster pin hole, but that probably came more from hard landings from wheelies than from just being a design flaw.

The seat on my 552 is incorrect, but that's what was on it when I got it. (it was free, so I didn't complain! )

The 502 has the original seat with cover and the optional backrest, and the 702 has the correct type of seat, but it came from a small Sears riding mower. (hint - hint )

[linen beige 14]

There was some change with the engine, but I dont know what it was

TT was is the S/G belt guard?

Both the 702 and 753 used the same spec number so any engine differences would have to be very minor. The 701 used a different spec engine however.

Re the s/g belt guard; The 702 didn't have the bulge where it covers the end of the starter/generator pulley. These flat guards were prone to rubbing the end of the shaft.

I love my 702 even with it's flaws, I plowed the ice out of my driveway with it today, but would say that about the only thing better about the 702 over the 753 is that the one peice tank on the 702 doesn't have that lower gasket leak problem.

The '62 prefix to the serial tag carried into the '63 model year, but the number posted above is in the range used in '62.

Front tires should be 4.80 X 4 X 8. Rears should be 6 X 12. Any other size tires indicates that the wheels have been changed. It is not uncommon to find wider tires on the rears of either model and the stock wheels are relatively easy to find, so that's not a big deal. Correct front wheels may be a bit harder to track down.

[Sarge 3,462]

Great, now I'm getting dizzy from scanning back and forth in all these pics . You guys have a great wealth of knowledge and these little things are so helpful in deciding value when buying another Horse . There is so much stuff out there that is so badly overpriced in the market .

I had some reservations about the axle design but I agree most breakage would be due to " operator error " .

The seat thing was driving me nuts , so many pics of different combinations that's hard to figure out what is correct . I was totally unaware of the fuel tank changes, that info is really worth a lot . Geeze, even right down to correct tire sizes to verify correct wheels , I love info like that .

So, the 702 is out of the picture, just too many items to find relative to making it correct . The pair of 1277's I have as well as the old 876 are the workhorses around here , a 700 series is mostly intended for show-type stuff . The 12's are both fairly flawed, but the work they perform is much appreciated and I'm slowly picking up parts to restore them , but that elusive 3-prong ignition switch is becoming a definite source of irritation , the original is about to get opened up for a rebuild ....

Now, I gotta work with Terry on getting that 753 up to the great white north....

Sarge

[iicap 1]

TT, i have a ? about the tractor with the white seat in the first pic. Looks like a snowblower with a VERY tall chute folded down for storage. Was that an optional chute on early blowers, say pre tach-omatic. Is it on a two stage blower and we can't see it in the pic. Wonder if you have blown snow with it and if throws better than the short chutes most of us talk about.

Thanks, Richard

[TT-(Moderator) 1,129]

That's a 1962 ST-3072 thrower mounted to my 1964 704. I have used it and was impressed with its capabilities even though the governor on the 704 wasn't working at the time. I also like the fact that it lifts very high compared to the newer throwers.

As far as tall chute vs. short chute is concerned, there is no difference in the thrower itself so function remains the same. I had previously posted that the short chute is like a shotgun and the tall chute is like a rifle when it comes to containing the discharge plume, but the ability to throw snow longer distances comes from the auger speed - or in the case of a two-stage blower - the fan.

[linen beige 14]

That's a 1962 ST-3072 thrower

Where'djagitit?Iwantone! for my 702.

Oh! While I'm here... Are you sure the hoods are the same on the 702 and 753? My 702 does not have, and shows no evidence of having ever had, the stiffening band around the bottom edge of the hood sides. The 753s I've seen pictured look like they do have it. The IPLs show different part numbers,(4415 for '62, 2585 for '63) but I know that could be wrong. Was the stiffener maybe added during the '62 model run making late '62 hoods the same as '63s? :thumbs:

[Sarge 3,462]

Wow, an implement that lifts as high as it should , unlike most of the blades, ect...

How does the lift arm work on that model ? Looks simple enough, and a nice design too .

Hit nearly 42* here today, most of the snow is gone already here ...

Sarge

[Michael Bullington 5]

Jim thats a great question...I have often wondered about that issue before, but never really got any answer.

The bigggest problem Ive run into is people have swapped hoods around so much its hard to tell...I hope someone here knows

[sorekiwi 761]

I hope someone here knows

Well, I dont.

But here's another thread about it: http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?...ic=4278&hl=hood.

My 502 doesnt have it, the 33E does. I'm nor sure, but it seems to have started around '63.

I ended up making some for the 33E, wasnt as hard as I thought it would be, and they came out OK. I made the inside flange a little taller on the inside of the hood so I could get to some thicker steel to weld it to. Just a little weld every 3 or 4 inches or so.

Havent got a good picture, but you can sort of see it here:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,129]

The addition of the stiffener does classify them as being two different hoods, but as far as interchangeability is concerned, they are "the same hood".

They can easily be removed or added to make the hood "correct", but that starts to get ridiculous. ("That Wheel Horse 753 only brought $1000 at the Barret-Jackson auction, but if it would have had the correct hood stiffeners, it would have brought $5000!" )

I can't say exactly when the stiffeners were added, but I do know none of my 1962's have them, and all of my 1963 & 1964's do. (Some of them are quite rusty and will coming off too.)

[iicap 1]

TT thanks for the comeback and pics of the snowblower working, also nice to see an earlier type of blower other than the ones with the wheels & skids most show. I remember your earlier posts on long/short chutes and have just bought a tach to see if my horse is running at 3600 WOT.

Thanks again, Richard