Shut off when I turned headlights on and won't start

[Thomas Owens 6]

I was mowing earlier this week with my 416-8 (Onan) and as it started to get dark I decided to turn on the headlights. As soon as I tried to turn them on it shut off, no headlights either. It now will not start. No lights when I turn the key, but the indicator lights will light up if the button is pushed. If I hotwire it, it turns over as normal but does not crank. I'm thinking ignition switch and/or relay.

 

Any thing else I might check. I've done a bit of searching but did not find the particular circumstances that I had happen. Any assistance would be appreciated!

 

Thanks,

Tommy

[953 nut 58,085]

      Could be a fuse, take a look at the wiring diagram and see if it helps.

 

Probably the 25 amp fuse between the battery and ignition switch, a short in the lighting system would blow it and prevent the solenoid from working from the switch.

[Thomas Owens 6]

Forgot to say I did check the fuses first thing and the one in the center appeared to be blown. Replaced that and still nothing. Had to push it to the garage

 

Thanks for the reply!!

[6bg6ga 272]

8 hours ago, Thomas Owens said:

I was mowing earlier this week with my 416-8 (Onan) and as it started to get dark I decided to turn on the headlights. As soon as I tried to turn them on it shut off, no headlights either. It now will not start. No lights when I turn the key, but the indicator lights will light up if the button is pushed. If I hotwire it, it turns over as normal but does not crank. I'm thinking ignition switch and/or relay.

 

Any thing else I might check. I've done a bit of searching but did not find the particular circumstances that I had happen. Any assistance would be appreciated!

 

Thanks,

Tommy

 

 

Your post doesn't make sense. "If I hotwire it. it turns over but does not crank. I'm thinking ignition switch and /or relay."

 

Maybe its me but it doesn't make sense. It turns over as normal but does not crank.  I assume when someone says it turns over it cranks. Do you mean you can turn it over by hand but it doesn't turn over with the starter?

 

I have to ask this...did you remove a 25 A fuse or had someone stuck a larger fuse in its place at one time or another? A larger fuse in place of the 25A fuse certainly means more trouble.

 

Time to get out your meter....  Attach the neg probe to the black wire on the starter relay attach the red probe to the red lead on the relay. Be sure the meter is in the VDC scale. Turn the key and see if you have 12VDC on your meter. If not attach a jumper wire from ground to the black wire on the relay and recheck.

Edited May 7, 2017 by 6bg6ga

[6bg6ga 272]

 

 

Pretty simple to go to the basics and hot wire the ignition. 

 

I was trying to attach the starter wiring schematic only but I see it didn't work. Anyway check the starter diagram and you will understand.

Edited May 7, 2017 by 6bg6ga

[Thomas Owens 6]

2 hours ago, 6bg6ga said:

 

 

Your post doesn't make sense. "If I hotwire it. it turns over but does not crank. I'm thinking ignition switch and /or relay."

 

Maybe its me but it doesn't make sense. It turns over as normal but does not crank.  I assume when someone says it turns over it cranks. Do you mean you can turn it over by hand but it doesn't turn over with the starter?

 

I have to ask this...did you remove a 25 A fuse or had someone stuck a larger fuse in its place at one time or another? A larger fuse in place of the 25A fuse certainly means more trouble.

 

Time to get out your meter....  Attach the neg probe to the black wire on the starter relay attach the red probe to the red lead on the relay. Be sure the meter is in the VDC scale. Turn the key and see if you have 12VDC on your meter. If not attach a jumper wire from ground to the black wire on the relay and recheck.

 

Sorry for the confusion, if I place a wire on the starter solenoid terminals the starter engages and spins the flywheel but it does not stay running. Sounds like no spark to me.

 

It was a 25A fuse and I replaced it with the same. 

 

I'll have to check the relay with my meter per your instructions. 

 

Thanks for the instructions! I'm no expert on these tractors and it's sometimes frustrating but somehow satisfying to keep it running for this long. 

 

Thanks,

Tommy

53 minutes ago, 6bg6ga said:

 

 

Pretty simple to go to the basics and hot wire the ignition. 

 

I was trying to attach the starter wiring schematic only but I see it didn't work. Anyway check the starter diagram and you will understand.

 

I tried to do that with the key in the ignition on position, even had my wife sit in the seat and press in the clutch, though if I understand correctly that should not matter for hot-wiring. 

 

I was about to say that was the first time I had tried to hotwire a vehicle but I had a bad switch on a Massey Ferguson many years ago and had to go the hotwire route until I could replace the switch. 

 

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I'll have to get it running so I can cut grass or I shall have to pull out the aforementioned Massey Ferguson with a bushhog

 

Thanks,

Tommy

[rmaynard 15,936]

A bad fuse block is also a common problem.

[953 nut 58,085]

5 hours ago, 6bg6ga said:

was trying to attach the starter wiring schematic only but I see it didn't work

The attachment I gave has each system as a separate page, got that covered.

[6bg6ga 272]

I understand. I was trying to post a single page for clairification.

[6bg6ga 272]

Were you able to check the relay?   I would suggest removing the relay. Put your meter on the terminal and apply 12 volts to it and see if the relay works.

Also, did you meter the ignition switch?

Edited May 8, 2017 by 6bg6ga

[Thomas Owens 6]

Thanks for the replies. I have some items to check tomorrow!

 

Question about purchasing parts for the 416-8. Any recommended site? Any comprehensive list of part numbers? I've got the number off the relay (sitting on my desk) and off the ignition switch. Haven't removed the fuse block yet to take a look at it.

 

Thanks,

Tommy

[pfrederi 18,360]

 

[bmsgaffer 2,046]

I just have to throw this out there... Did you disengage the PTO before trying to start it again?

 

We've all been there... some of us more than others 

 

I like RCPW.com (Sohar's) for my parts. 

[Thomas Owens 6]

18 hours ago, 6bg6ga said:

Were you able to check the relay?   I would suggest removing the relay. Put your meter on the terminal and apply 12 volts to it and see if the relay works.

Also, did you meter the ignition switch?

 

I did pull the relay out but have not checked it yet. I know some basics of electronics but not a huge amount.......I also pulled the ignition switch out. Was trying to find part numbers on both. 

 

Thanks,

Tommy

48 minutes ago, bmsgaffer said:

I just have to throw this out there... Did you disengage the PTO before trying to start it again?

 

We've all been there... some of us more than others 

 

I like RCPW.com (Sohar's) for my parts. 

 

Lol, yes I did, but it's perfectly fine asking. Sometimes it's the simple things we overlook, which is why I decided to post and get ideas from the more experienced folks

 

Thanks for the suggestion about RCPW.com

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

 

Thanks!

 

[Thomas Owens 6]

I picked up the new switch from the dealer today. Came home, ate dinner, changed clothes and installed the switch. I had already looked up how to test the relay, and having a ~12V power supply helped do just that, and with that and a multi-meter had found the relay to be good. Install switch, turn key, I get lights, which was an improvement. Close the hood and hop on, she fires right up. Cut two weeks+ worth of grass until it got dark. Pulled the mower back to the garage and tried the headlights, they came on, which was also a good thing.

 

Guess that switch needed to be replaced

 

Thanks for all the suggestions and helping me work through this. 

 

Tommy

 

[rmaynard 15,936]

[6bg6ga 272]

6 hours ago, Thomas Owens said:

I picked up the new switch from the dealer today. Came home, ate dinner, changed clothes and installed the switch. I had already looked up how to test the relay, and having a ~12V power supply helped do just that, and with that and a multi-meter had found the relay to be good. Install switch, turn key, I get lights, which was an improvement. Close the hood and hop on, she fires right up. Cut two weeks+ worth of grass until it got dark. Pulled the mower back to the garage and tried the headlights, they came on, which was also a good thing.

 

Guess that switch needed to be replaced

 

Thanks for all the suggestions and helping me work through this. 

 

Tommy

 

 

I'm glad you took the advice to check the relay to avoid throwing parts at it.  I had advised to check the ignition switch. I'm glad you have her running good now. Good Job!

[Thomas Owens 6]

I kinda knew the switch needed replace, which is why I didn't bother testing it. My repair had held for a while

 

I think turning on the headlights that fateful night must have cooked the switches innards......

 

I have a much better understanding of the electrical system on these things now. 

 

Need to get a pic of her and use it for my avatar. Maybe soon

 

Thanks again everyone!