New to forum and question

[kthomas62 44]

Good evening to everyone and hello,

 

I am new to this forum, even though I have visited several times over the years. Allow me to introduce myself. I am Kevin Thomas, from Webb City, Missouri. I was first exposed to Wheel Horse garden tractors back in 1975 or 1976 when I first got to mow with a 16 hp Wheel Horse that one of my uncles owned. He was a long time Wheel Horse owner and used his to mow and plow his garden with. His parents had them back in the 60's and what impressed me about them and still does today is that that you just can't wear them out.

 

I have owned several Wheel Horses over the years and currently own a 1986 414-8 (Model # 31-14K801) that I have had for several years and use it to mow our place with. I had been wanting another one and found a nice one which I purchased this past Friday. It's a 1988 414-8 (Model 31-14K803).

 

It's in good shape but it's got some really bad slop in the steering and I read where it's been a problem on some of these mowers. It's hard to explain but you can turn the steering wheel about 1/4 turn before the front tires turn.

 

When I look at where the steering wheel shaft meets the lower gear where the grease zerk is, you can see the shaft move around when you turn the wheel. Not sure what part of this needs rebuilt, possibly the area where the lower part of the steering wheel shaft is mounted but just looking for some thoughts on this subject,  and if there are parts available. Thank you in advance!

 

Kevin.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by kthomas62

[SylvanLakeWH 28,572]

 

Some of the more seasoned folks will be along to give you guidance - You are at the right site!

[WHX?? 51,886]

Mr Thomas

When you get a chance to lay the tractor up take that lower steering gear apart and re-bush the lower socket.  The lower socket is cast and wears more easily than the bottom of the steering shaft resulting in that slop even though there is a grease zerk ther. PO may never have greased it.This was my solution but you should be able to also replace the trunnion. Clean up and check the rest of the steering gear ...tie rods may be worn.

[jay bee 915]

Nice post @WHX11 that answers some of my questions also.   to Mr. Thomas, you came to the right place.

Jim

 

 

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,613]

 

Howdy, Kevin. I'm on the other side of Missouri.  From the pictures, your new 414-8 looks to be in pretty good shape.  For the steering problem, Jim @WHX11 seems to have covered it.  Again, welcome to RS.

[953 nut 60,334]

     Jim showed you the best way to corrct this problem, a bit of work but very long lasting cure.   

[Retired Wrencher 5,836]

Kevin.    Nnice looking tractor you will find good help here. 

[Ed Kennell 42,139]

 to the  Kevin.     

    Jim has shown you the repair for the slop  in the lower end of the vertical steering shaft.    The upper bushing in this shaft may also be worn out and this can be repaired  also, but will require removing the steering wheel which can be a real challenge.

Poor engagement of the two steering gears may also be causing some of the slop in the steering.   It may be possible to tighten the gears by removing the cotter pin at the rear end of the lower horizontal shaft and adding shim washers.

And like Jim stated, the tie rods can also be worn and contribute to the sloppy steering.

[JC 1965 1,532]

[WHX?? 51,886]

56 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

rear end of the lower horizontal shaft and adding shim washers.

I forgot to add that, I was thinking to add some springs back ther somehow to keep the gears tightly meshed. It was suggested to me perhaps some wave or belville washers with the shims???

This area here Kevin, you won't have the 45 deg zerk here... that's custom!

Drilling for the bushing

My theory If the bushing wears which it should just pull it out and replace.

I would bet that if you can get a new one from a Toro dealer they would be quite $$ proud of them. Wouldn't hurt to check tho.

[WHX?? 51,886]

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

but will require removing the steering wheel which can be a real challenge.

Ask him how he knows!

[Ed Kennell 42,139]

29 minutes ago, WHX11 said:

 I was thinking to add some springs back there somehow to keep the gears tightly meshed. It was suggested to me perhaps some wave or belville washers with the shims???

 

 

Yeah Jim, what  would really be nice there would be a threaded shaft with a castle nut to replace that cotter pin.   Then the  spring washers could be compressed and  adjusted easily.    There probably isn't enough length to thread the shaft, but maybe a D&T with a loctitied stud  with a compression sleeve and nut.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Ed Kennell

[TDF5G 2,073]

I would check the shims underneath the tractor on the horizontal shaft first.  I'd bet most of the slack could be taken out there.  Here are some pics of what it should look like.  The shims are 3/4 I.D.  I found them at Orscheln or Tractor Supply, called machine washers or shims.

[kthomas62 44]

11 hours ago, WHX11 said:

Mr Thomas

When you get a chance to lay the tractor up take that lower steering gear apart and re-bush the lower socket.  The lower socket is cast and wears more easily than the bottom of the steering shaft resulting in that slop even though there is a grease zerk ther. PO may never have greased it.This was my solution but you should be able to also replace the trunnion. Clean up and check the rest of the steering gear ...tie rods may be worn.

Jim,

 

Thank you VERY MUCH sir! 

 

This is exactly what I needed and I couldn't find any diagram on the old Innerweb. How hard of a job is it to get down to where this bushing is?

 

Kevin

4 minutes ago, TDF5G said:

I would check the shims underneath the tractor on the horizontal shaft first.  I'd bet most of the slack could be taken out there.  Here are some pics of what it should look like.  The shims are 3/4 I.D.  I found them at Orscheln or Tractor Supply, called machine washers or shims.

Thank you very much!

 

I will definitely look into this as well!

 

 

Just want to say Thanks to everyone who replied and Thank you for making me feel welcome here! I really appreciate that. A big Thanks to Jim and to TDF5G for their good photos and advice!

 

Can't wait to start working on correcting the issues and putting my newly acquired tractor to work at the "Poor Farm" ! LOL, that is what I call our place!
 

Kevin

Edited April 10, 2017 by kthomas62

[WHX?? 51,886]

10 hours ago, kthomas62 said:

 hard of a job is it to get down to where this bushing is

Not sure on a 414 Kevin but shouldn't be too difficult. ..hopefully  414 fellas will chime in.

[kthomas62 44]

Sounds good, thank you Jim! I see that your Navy. Our oldest son is as well. He is currently stationed at Oceana Naval Air Station in Virginia Beach. Thank you for your service!

 

Kevin

Edited April 11, 2017 by kthomas62

[WHX?? 51,886]

Your more than welcome!

[kthomas62 44]

Hey guys,

 

What all has to be disassembled to get down to this gear area and how difficult is it to get the steering wheel / shaft out of the tractor?

 

Thanks in advance!!

Kevin

[RandyLittrell 3,906]

Welcome Kevin! I am up the road from you in Harrisonville. Only have a couple of horses right now but I am sure that will change! 

 

 

 

 

 

Randy

[kthomas62 44]

Thank you Randy!

 

Yeah, your not too far up the road! Thank you for your message!

 

Kevin

[bmsgaffer 2,053]

I have never tried to get at that peice while the engine was in so I am not much help there, but there will be no bushing on yours. Thag was custom work done by him. If you or someone you know is mechanically inclined you can drill and add a bushing.

 

Otherwise, i think you can still order that peice, around $50 if i recall. You can look up your owners manual, IPL (integrated parts list, this has the diagrams) and lots of other good information right here in our manuals section.

Ah, its gone up a bit since then. Be sure to check your manual as this is for a 1983 model, not sure if they are the same (but i think they are) 

 

https://www.rcpw.com/search/?quest=109733

 

[kthomas62 44]

On 4/12/2017 at 9:55 PM, bmsgaffer said:

I have never tried to get at that peice while the engine was in so I am not much help there, but there will be no bushing on yours. Thag was custom work done by him. If you or someone you know is mechanically inclined you can drill and add a bushing.

 

Otherwise, i think you can still order that peice, around $50 if i recall. You can look up your owners manual, IPL (integrated parts list, this has the diagrams) and lots of other good information right here in our manuals section.

Ah, its gone up a bit since then. Be sure to check your manual as this is for a 1983 model, not sure if they are the same (but i think they are) 

 

https://www.rcpw.com/search/?quest=109733 

Thank you!

I appreciate you sharing that link!

 

On 4/12/2017 at 9:55 PM, bmsgaffer said: