Carter model N trouble

[Jaymon74 84]

So I took the advice and rebuilt the carb.  It was having issues flooding out if it didn't start on the first or second revolution.  The float bowl did have sediment.  So I took it completely apart, soaked the carb in a ultrasonic heated cleaner for 1 1/2 hours, and reassembled it. I installed both a fuel filter and shut off. Adjusted the Jets two turns out to get it running for final adjustment.  Problem is, it still will not start. Acts like it wants to, but will not.

[Elkskin's mower junkyard 1,117]

55 minutes ago, Jaymon74 said:

So I took the advice and rebuilt the carb.  It was having issues flooding out if it didn't start on the first or second revolution.  The float bowl did have sediment.  So I took it completely apart, soaked the carb in a ultrasonic heated cleaner for 1 1/2 hours, and reassembled it. I installed both a fuel filter and shut off. Adjusted the Jets two turns out to get it running for final adjustment.  Problem is, it still will not start. Acts like it wants to, but will not.

are the needle jets clean?

[Jaymon74 84]

Ultrasonic cleaned and blown out with compressed air.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Jaymon74

[Elkskin's mower junkyard 1,117]

19 minutes ago, Jaymon74 said:

Ultrasonic cleaned and blown out with compressed air.

hmmmmm. my model N carb on 701 was plugged had to rod it out with welding tip cleaners. but the brass jets might have to do what i did on 701 replace them with used ones lol

[Jaymon74 84]

So... this engine has been completely gone through. When I first got the tractor, it started easy. The wiring was a complete mess. Then the valve stuck and I decided to rebuild the whole thing. Simple rebuild. It was already bored .10 Rings, valve job, new gaskets. Rebuilt carb and new ignition components was also done, along with cleaned fuel tank and new hoses. All rewiring was done including ignition switch.  After all that was done, it was hard to start. Seemed like it was very sensitive to choke position.  Then the flooding issue that got worse.  So today I decided to go with the carb rebuild, fuel filter and shut off. Also checked spark. Nice and strong, blue.  Battery fully charged. Good compression.  Kept pulling spark plug and cleaning it, then blowing out the carb and head. It would just keep turning over, sputter and try to start, then nothing.  I'm just at a loss. 

[Elkskin's mower junkyard 1,117]

9 minutes ago, Jaymon74 said:

So... this engine has been completely gone through. When I first got the tractor, it started easy. The wiring was a complete mess. Then the valve stuck and I decided to rebuild the whole thing. Simple rebuild. It was already bored .10 Rings, valve job, new gaskets. Rebuilt carb and new ignition components was also done, along with cleaned fuel tank and new hoses. All rewiring was done including ignition switch.  After all that was done, it was hard to start. Seemed like it was very sensitive to choke position.  Then the flooding issue that got worse.  So today I decided to go with the carb rebuild, fuel filter and shut off. Also checked spark. Nice and strong, blue.  Battery fully charged. Good compression.  Kept pulling spark plug and cleaning it, then blowing out the carb and head. It would just keep turning over, sputter and try to start, then nothing.  I'm just at a loss. 

are you the guy that posted the video on FB? that had flames coming out of carb lol

[Jaymon74 84]

8 minutes ago, craftsmanmowerfreak said:

are you the guy that posted the video on FB? that had flames coming out of carb lol

Nope. Actually when the valve stuck it was just blowing all the gas out of the carb. 

[Elkskin's mower junkyard 1,117]

2 minutes ago, Jaymon74 said:

Nope. Actually when the valve stuck it was just blowing all the gas out of the carb. 

ahh ok. just making sure bc that guy had timing off lol.

[WH nut 553]

Try taking the muffler off and starting it. I have seen mufflers plug up.

[wallfish 17,621]

The flooding issue is caused by the float valve not sealing. Since it was progressively getting worse over time, my guess is the float itself may have a hole in it which will cause it to sink in the fuel of the bowl. That condition will cause the issue you're having because the float level can not be set.

Seems like it may be flooding it out from your description.

Pull the float out and shake it to listen or feel if fuel has entered into it. Or was this replaced when you did the rebuild? Float level set correctly?

 

 

[Jaymon74 84]

1 hour ago, wallfish said:

The flooding issue is caused by the float valve not sealing. Since it was progressively getting worse over time, my guess is the float itself may have a hole in it which will cause it to sink in the fuel of the bowl. That condition will cause the issue you're having because the float level can not be set.

Seems like it may be flooding it out from your description.

Pull the float out and shake it to listen or feel if fuel has entered into it. Or was this replaced when you did the rebuild? Float level set correctly?

 

 

I didn't replace it. I did check it the first rebuild, and yesterday.  Other than a little corrosion on the pin area, it was in great condition. No leaks, and corrosion taken care of.  I set the float according to the rebuild kit. It came with a rule to set it.                                                           So the tractor has sat all night with the choke open, and spark plug out. I'm going to try again. I'll probably check the points setting again just to make sure.                                                              I was wondering about the fuel pump. Could it have too much pressure?

[Jaymon74 84]

2 hours ago, WH nut said:

Try taking the muffler off and starting it. I have seen mufflers plug up.

That is easier said than done. When the engine was being rebuilt I couldn't get the muffler off. Tried soaking, heating, brute force, etc. Had to do rebuild with it attached.  I was afraid of cracking the head, so I gave up. 

[WH nut 553]

58 minutes ago, Jaymon74 said:

That is easier said than done. When the engine was being rebuilt I couldn't get the muffler off. Tried soaking, heating, brute force, etc. Had to do rebuild with it attached.  I was afraid of cracking the head, so I gave up. 

What muffler do you have on it?

[Jaymon74 84]

43 minutes ago, WH nut said:

What muffler do you have on it?

Not letting me upload a pic.  It's the original style for the 68 Charger 12

So I just checked points and plug gap and again for spark. It's all good. I've got a good consistent spark (used an in line spark tester, (maybe try a different plug?) fuel (plug is fuel soaked after cranking over , and definitely pulling air. Sucked my hand right to the carb. Logic says it should start. 

[Elkskin's mower junkyard 1,117]

2 hours ago, Jaymon74 said:

That is easier said than done. When the engine was being rebuilt I couldn't get the muffler off. Tried soaking, heating, brute force, etc. Had to do rebuild with it attached.  I was afraid of cracking the head, so I gave up. 

you got a sawzaw? http://gardentractortalk.com/articles.html/_/tech-tips-how-to/how-to-remove-a-stuck-muffler-nipple-r123

[Jaymon74 84]

5 minutes ago, craftsmanmowerfreak said:

you got a sawzaw? http://gardentractortalk.com/articles.html/_/tech-tips-how-to/how-to-remove-a-stuck-muffler-nipple-r123

Yep. Just got it going. New spark plug did the trick. Fired right up. 

[Elkskin's mower junkyard 1,117]

Just now, Jaymon74 said:

Yep. Just got it going. New spark plug did the trick. Fired right up. 

ok well i use this trick shown on gt talk all the time. works great.

[Jaymon74 84]

I checked the spark plug itself. It was missing spark. Only hitting about every 2-3. 

[woodchuckfarmer 333]

That was a cheep fix lol.

[Jaymon74 84]

58 minutes ago, woodchuckfarmer said:

That was a cheep fix lol.

Yeah, funny how a multiple of problems can mess up a good time.  Carb did need cleaned and rebuilt. Did need a filter and shut off. Then a faulty plug, which by the way was a new NGK already. I bought an Autolite this time.

[wallfish 17,621]

18 hours ago, Jaymon74 said:

Also checked spark. Nice and strong, blue.

 

2 hours ago, Jaymon74 said:

So I just checked points and plug gap and again for spark. It's all good. I've got a good consistent spark

Glad you got her going!

Just assumed you were checking spark through the plug. Many times it's the simple things that catch us all because they are easily overlooked. I had a NGK plug quit overnight after plowing snow the previous day. Went to start it in the morning and just got a little puff, then nothing but cranking over. Thought for sure it was a fuel issue because I checked for spark through the plug wire only but after a few hours of freezing my butt off, finally figured it out. Should've confirmed spark through the plug the first time checking it which would've saved some aggravation.

[Jaymon74 84]

I messed up the first time around checking for spark.  I did do it with the plug, but didn't check for consistency.  I saw a nice blue spark and called it good. This time around I used the in line checker and it was showing a consistent bright orange/yellow glow on the bulb. With that and knowing it was getting fuel and air, the point gap was spot on and the plug gap good, I figured it had to be the plug. What a headache though!!

[Jaymon74 84]

So what about getting the elbow removed from the head?  That's what I was trying to do. 

[Elkskin's mower junkyard 1,117]

19 minutes ago, Jaymon74 said:

So what about getting the elbow removed from the head?  That's what I was trying to do. 

same route has shown on gt talk. i do it alot just make sure engine has exhaust valve closed. you can also use a vacume to get shavings out. yes you will knick the thread in block but new pipe will still seal.

[WH nut 553]

10 hours ago, Jaymon74 said:

Not letting me upload a pic.  It's the original style for the 68 Charger 12

So I just checked points and plug gap and again for spark. It's all good. I've got a good consistent spark (used an in line spark tester, (maybe try a different plug?) fuel (plug is fuel soaked after cranking over , and definitely pulling air. Sucked my hand right to the carb. Logic says it should start. 

See my comment under stuck exhaust