dign 1 #1 Posted September 18, 2016 I have a Wheel Horse 414-8 that has a fuel problem that I can't solve. It began with engine dying as though out of gas, would restart run a few yards then die again. Made it back to house with choke pulled and barely running. Removed gas line from fuel pump to carb and cranked engine, no gas from line. Then removed gas line from fuel pump to tank, gas flowing good from tank. Bought new fuel pump, installed and would only run with choke full on and would die after few minutes of running. The throttle shaft in carb has wobble and excessive clearance plus had been having a surging problem for awhile. So bought a new carburetor , installed and still have same problem.. Now with clean line, new fuel pump, and new carb I still have the problem. When cold cranking takes excessive cranking or shot of starting fluid to get started. Then will only run with full choke. Dies if choke is pushed in. Even with choke pulled it will only run a few minutes before dying..I'm wondering if bad new fuel pump ? I've experienced worn cam lobes in small block Chevy engines that would not work the fuel pump arm effectively, is this possible with a Kohler engine ? Any ideas or help appreciated.......... Dign Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 60,220 #2 Posted September 19, 2016 Have you checked the output of the new fuel pump? Also, I know you had good fuel flow from the tank, but have you topped off the tank and bled the fuel line to the pump? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dign 1 #3 Posted September 19, 2016 Output from fuel pump was pulsing inch or so and didn't seem very strong. I use non ethanol gas and tank full of new clean gas. Line from tank was flowing gas out when I pushed end on fuel pump fitting so no air in line.. I think I'll try an electric pump. I can get one with 2-4 psi so should be able to find out if mechanical pump defective... thanks for reply 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clueless 3,258 #5 Posted September 19, 2016 When you installed the new pump did you make sure the pump arm was above the cam? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dign 1 #6 Posted September 19, 2016 Yes, I made sure it was installed right but the fact that it runs off the cam made me wonder if that could possibly be the problem... I have seen several small block Chevy engines that have worn cam lobes that could only be started by putting gas in carb. Then at higher running rpm's the fuel pump would work but at cranking speeds the lobe was worn to the point it would not work the pump arm enough to start the engine.. Just wondering if anyone has ever had a worn cam lobe problem on a 14 hp Kohler engine ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,553 #8 Posted September 19, 2016 I've seen worn lobes on Kohler cams, but the wear was negligible. ..002. That's not enough to affect fuel pump efficiency. I'm thinking crap in the fuel tank and lines has clogged your new carb. Usually, a new carb will not exhibit the same symptoms you are having without an external influence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mystery_enigma 11 #9 Posted September 19, 2016 I have had this problem. What you describe is a for sure fuel problem. The one I had was loss of suction. To test If it won't start take an air hose and put a little pressure in tank through fill spout then it should start. You can also put a rag over fill spout and blow some air in and hold pressure for a few. If it then starts this indicates loss of suction. If you are lucky it may push a little fuel out of any leak. To solve it I sealed fuel pump intake/output fittings with a lil Teflon tape wrapped on the the threads. I also sealed line connections by putting a lil sealant on the barbs before I pushed lines on. Don't use those slide on clamps, buy a good quality high pressure fuel line clamp at an auto parts store.. Remember this is a suction so the tank line will not show a leak, just suck air and stall from lack of fuel. The pump to carb line will show a leak as it is pressurized. And you can still have water/contamination in carb bowl if there was any in tank. And the valve under tank can get blocked, not full open or bleed air into fuel line. That's all I can think of right now. Try the easy ones first, Good luck. I know you will get it..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detector 72 #10 Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) Dign, looks like you have covered about everything in the fuel system, I assume you replaced the fuel lines with new ones, rotted line particles will sometimes find their way in the float needle or in the jet. Try running it with the fuel cap slightly loose just in case the caps vent is restricted. When I run into fuel issues like you describe, I will plug off or shut off the fuel from the factory tank, disconnect the inlet fuel line at the carburetor insuring no fuel is left to pump out the line to prevent fire and use a external gravity fed tank run straight to the carburetor by-passing the fuel pump using clamps on both ends, I have one off a old Craftsman just for problem solving on everything from, ATVs to mowers, I always secure well & put Safety First! It will eliminate fuel system issues pretty quick! If I've covered everything fuel related including vacuum leaks, spark plug condition... my next step checking the coil firing "a weak coil will cause issues, valve adjustment too loose or too tight will cause a loss in compression, carbon build up as well as cylinder/ring wear, it takes engine vacuum to pull in fuel into the intake. Edited September 20, 2016 by Detector Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dign 1 #11 Posted September 22, 2016 Working on the Wheel Horse has been put on hold until I can kick this stomach flu/ virus or whatever hit me. I appreciate all the tips and advice everyone has given. Most of the things I have already done. I have a plastic windshield washer fluid reservoir from a 60's Chevy that I hang from the hood of cars to start them when they been sitting for years and I don't want to suck nasty gas from the tanks. This was one of the first things I tried and didn't solve the problem. But after that I have removed the entire gas line, drained the tank , tank is clean, screen is clean, blew compressed air thru everything and the line looks fairly new. I have another 414-8 Wheel Horse that I keep a snow blade mounted and use it for bull dozing dirt when I don't have snow and the one I am working on is just for mowing. The last thing I tried before getting sick was I removed the line from fuel pump to carb on my good 414 and it had a much stronger squirt of gas when cranking.. Makes me still think it's something fuel pump related, maybe my new pump wasn't much better than the one I replaced.. When I get back to it I will let you know how it turns out, thanks to all for your responses...... Dign Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elcamino/wheelhorse 9,362 #12 Posted September 22, 2016 @dign I had then same type of problem on my 416-8, I solved it by installing an electric fuel pump , wire , switch and fuel filter and the 416-8 rolls right along. Check out aircraftspruce.com Facet Posi -flo solid state fuel pump Facet number 60300. $34.90 plus shipping. This pump was recommended by a couple of guys on the forum. I just got over the stomach what ever on Monday so it looks like it making the rounds in VA. By the way Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dign 1 #13 Posted October 2, 2016 Cutting off problem solved,,,,, I put an electric fuel pump on and it runs fine again. I guess the new mechanical fuel pump that I put on was as bad as the old one I took off. It was a cheap plastic pump from E bay although I don't know if maybe I just got a bad one.. The new carburetor I put on would soon have been needed since the throttle shaft in the old one had some serious wobble in it so now I should be good to go for awhile as far as fuel system goes. Thanks to everyone for your tips and help,,,,,,,, Dign Share this post Link to post Share on other sites