wow , these tractors are..........different

[Adam Bish 34]

i am in the process of tearing down my c160 for a complete nut and bolt restoration.  these tractors are new to me and built/put together like none i have seen before. they are very simple by nature, in terms of construction. some things i like, and some things it really appears they cut corners. did they do this to save money, or were these tractors a price point tractor from day one? i am curious to know what they cost compared to deere and simplicity? the engine and transmission are obviously premium components. they do however use alot of light sheet metal. the steering system leaves little to be desired.  no ross steering box, the norm for the late 60's through the early 90's. and there really is not much to the frame. it stills blows me away that there are no bushings anywhere in the front axle. these tractors seem to work well, and there are many of them out there with tons of hours on them. i am not knocking them, i am just wondering what wheelhorse' marketing strategy was? were these an entry level price point machine, or were they just never updated and modernized in their construction., as the other brands were? just want to here from some long time collectors, historians.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,345]

They were probably less expensive than a Deere or a Cub, but by no means were they entry level.  The design was such that they were simple to work on, less expensive to manufactured and use a lot of stock parts in the Wheel Horse parts supply.  Construction was well thought out to meet the requirements set forth, i.e simple design, less parts, easier to maintain, reuse of parts, easy to fabricate, manufacture and assemble.  I believe these design traits has allowed them to be very durable, and for owners to maintain over the years.  Also it what appeals to collectors and hobbyists today.  They are easy to restore and work on, compared to other brands of the same era.

 

And they were not entry level tractors.  If you look at the overall design, and can understand manufacture techniques and design, and understand logistics, they were well thought out.  Compare them to today's lawn tractors and you will see what entry level really is and what cost cutting is.  The Wheel Horses were not!

[Don1977 604]

The C-80, C-100, C-120, C-160 are the best of the Wheel Horse line. I know there are different opinions. But construction for the models were the best. Making something 

more complicated doesn't make it better. 

[Wheel-N-It 2,967]

There was a time when I had some of the same thoughts on Wheel Horse tractors. I thought why couldn't they have put a bearing or bushing here or there? Why didn't they make the frame a little beefier? Why did they not use a nice steering box instead of the Fred Flintstone fan gear steering? But in the end I'm glad they did what they did because obviously it's kept me around Wheel Horses for 25 years, and I still enjoy them to this day. 

Adam, hopefully you will end up with the same smile on your face about Wheel Horses as most of us here on Red Square have. 

[Adam Bish 34]

Thanks for the replies. I like all brands guys, just prefer green. I am not saying these tractors are inferior in any way, just different from what I am used to. I enjoying restoration projects like this, and the challenge of making them better than new. It is a fact that these tractors are very simple indeed to work on. I will enjoy updating and uprating this tractors features/options to my liking. Thank-you for all the input so far 

[Walt 339]

4 hours ago, Don1977 said:

The C-80, C-100, C-120, C-160 are the best of the Wheel Horse line. I know there are different opinions. But construction for the models were the best. Making something 

more complicated doesn't make it better. 

I agree whole heartily that more complicated isn't always better I prefer to own equipment I can maintain. I even prefer to do the maintenance and repairs on my 90 Chevy k-1500 over buying a newer model. 

[Adam Bish 34]

I am wishing new parts were still more readily available.

[kudzu3 323]

I hope you'll post pics of your resto.

[oliver2-44 8,877]

While the steering may look "Fred Flinstone". Their simplicity means they last to even become salvage parts. The Ross steering boxes are getting really hard to find parts for

[r356c 375]

Wheel Horses can trace their history to 1946, the year after WWII ended.  (Correct me if I am wrong on this guys.)
The first IH Cub Cadet 'Original' garden tractor was introduced in 1961.

The first John Deere garden tractor model 110 was introduced in 1963.

 

You don't have to go much further back than 1946 to only have 2-wheel motorized plows and cultivation tools available for small acreage needs.

Deere and IH already had many years of corporate success when their garden tractors were introduced.

In my mind, the Pond's are post WWII American pioneers. 

A uniquely American product from a one man start-up during the crest of the machine age.

[Retired Wrencher 4,891]

16 hours ago, Adam Bish said:

I am wishing new parts were still more readily available.

You can find good used part on E-Bay or here it is does not have to be new to work.

Edited September 5, 2016 by T1257 RETIRED WRENCHER.

[Adam Bish 34]

1 hour ago, T1257 RETIRED WRENCHER. said:

You can find good used part on E-Bay or here it is does not have to be new to work.

I agree, I don't mind used parts in good shape. I just strive for a better than new tractor when I restore one. I like to update and improve them where they are needed. I am just very used to being able to go straight to a dealer and order whatever parts I need for a tractor, no matter how old it may be.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Adam Bish

[MalMac 1,328]

There is no doubt the Wheel Horse made a quality product. But as a true Wheel Horse collector you must admit that there are certain parts or design to a Wheel Horse that you have to had looked at and thought "Why did they design it that way?" Or " That's a super cheap/junk way to make it."  As a dealer we would get Service Bulletin Advising us as to a change. Then there were times dealers lodge complaints to the factory that fell on deaf ears. All in all they were a good tractor. Just think if they would have added bushings or bearings to the steering from the shafts clear through the front axel. Maybe added better bushings or even bearings to the drive belt ideler shafts. Maybe even found better way to mount a steering wheel so it could be removed without inventing a new vocabulary. This all would have been great but if all this did go into the design then it would have demanded something else from its customers....... A lot bigger bank account to pay for it. 

[KC9KAS 4,741]

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 9:53 AM, Don1977 said:

The C-80, C-100, C-120, C-160 are the best of the Wheel Horse line. I know there are different opinions. But construction for the models were the best. Making something 

more complicated doesn't make it better. 

Excuse me for asking...Did WH make a C-80? I don't think I have ever seen one...a C-100 either for that matter

[Adam Bish 34]

i have seen a c100, but not a c80

[Racinbob 10,370]

Not a C-80. In 1978 when they changed the B-series from a garden tractor to a lawn tractor they did make a C-81. They also made a C-100 in 1975.

[TDF5G 2,051]

On 9/4/2016 at 8:19 PM, r356c said:

Wheel Horses can trace their history to 1946, the year after WWII ended.  (Correct me if I am wrong on this guys.)
The first IH Cub Cadet 'Original' garden tractor was introduced in 1961.

The first John Deere garden tractor model 110 was introduced in 1963.

 

You don't have to go much further back than 1946 to only have 2-wheel motorized plows and cultivation tools available for small acreage needs.

Deere and IH already had many years of corporate success when their garden tractors were introduced.

In my mind, the Pond's are post WWII American pioneers. 

A uniquely American product from a one man start-up during the crest of the machine age.

Wheel Horse was the first 4 wheeled garden tractor wasn't it?

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,264]

The simplicity of construction is one of the main points that draw me to Wheel Horse tractors, I'm currently working on a 1971 Gilson built Montgomery Wards that I got a heck of a deal on a couple months back, this thing will make you pull your hair out working on it, my old trusty 1277 is MUCH easier to wrench on 

[r356c 375]

6 hours ago, TDF5G said:

Wheel Horse was the first 4 wheeled garden tractor wasn't it?

 

After an hour long deep Google dive, I cannot find anything to disprove that statement. 

I don't count 2-wheel garden tractors with sulkies.

The FMC Bean Cutler/Bolens Ridemaster tries to take the first 4 wheeled garden tractor title on a couple of sites.

The Ridemaster would be disqualified in my opinion as a 2-wheel tractor with a welded on sulky.

 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Different opinions on who was the first 4 wheel garden tractor.  I have read that Bolens claimed first but then others do as well.  Probably will some day find out that some brand we never heard of was the first!  And in the 1930s!  Seems odd to me that as popular as they are today that they were that scarce decades ago!  The auto industry needed Henry Ford and perhaps the GT industry needed the likes of the Ponds.  Whoever it was I'm glad for them!

[Adam Bish 34]

its too bad deere and simplicity are the only ones still building a garden tractor, and you have to spend 7-8k to get anything with beef built into it. toro distroyed wheelhorse, mtd did the same to cub cadet, and as far as that goes briggs has succeeded in making simplicty a mere shadow of what it once was.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,345]

Ingersoll is still making theirs and the design is the same as it was when Case was making them.

[Ken B 3,116]

About the Ross gear boxes, you can keep them. Maybe this is just my own experiences with them but just about any Cub Cadet or John Deere I have ever sat on (I've owned many Cubs and even a few Deeres) it took at least 3/4 turn of the wheel to get any steering response. Forget about it if the tractor has seen a tough life. I do know how to fix that issue but lots of people don't. Now, you can set yourself down on the most whooped Wheel Horse out there and its not very often you'll have to turn the wheel very far to get steering response. There really aren't too many things about repairing a Wheel Horse that is going to hurt your pocket book like some of the other brands out there... If you need steering parts for a Wheel Horse chances are that someone will probably GIVE you what you need or pretty darn cheap. Anyone ever have to rebuild the PTO on a Cub Cadet? Not fun, much more difficult than it needs to be and not a job for the average homeowner back in the day, take it to the dealer. Rebuild a PTO on a Wheel Horse? A breeze. Sometimes its the Simplicity of the design that makes something great.

[Adam Bish 34]

14 minutes ago, Ken B said:

About the Ross gear boxes, you can keep them. Maybe this is just my own experiences with them but just about any Cub Cadet or John Deere I have ever sat on (I've owned many Cubs and even a few Deeres) it took at least 3/4 turn of the wheel to get any steering response. Forget about it if the tractor has seen a tough life. I do know how to fix that issue but lots of people don't. Now, you can set yourself down on the most whooped Wheel Horse out there and its not very often you'll have to turn the wheel very far to get steering response. There really aren't too many things about repairing a Wheel Horse that is going to hurt your pocket book like some of the other brands out there... If you need steering parts for a Wheel Horse chances are that someone will probably GIVE you what you need or pretty darn cheap. Anyone ever have to rebuild the PTO on a Cub Cadet? Not fun, much more difficult than it needs to be and not a job for the average homeowner back in the day, take it to the dealer. Rebuild a PTO on a Wheel Horse? A breeze. Sometimes its the Simplicity of the design that makes something great.

its all about what you are used to working on i guess, i dont find any of these old tractors too difficult to work on. thats the point of this thread, these tractors are different to me. i dont mess with cubs much, i do own a couple. i know most parts are still available at the dealers. the steering box on a cub or deere is VERY easy to adjust. 2 different adjustments, 5 minutes or less. they are also VERY easy to rebuild, 1//2 hour or less. and all parts are readily available , you just need to know where to look. i have a very low hour, one-owner c160 here on my lift, which was very well cared for. the steering is very sloppy. i have been looking for all new steering shafts and gears for this tractor for 2 weeks now. i guess they are NLA, and i have not had much luch on this or other forums either. this tractor will get a rebuildable/servicable cub front axle, and a deere power steering cylinder and steering box. it will look better than factory when its done, and all the parts to service those items are  still available. i am not knocking wheel horse at all, i am proud to own a tractor that was built close to home. i just did not realize how much difference there was in how they were built, and that new parts were hard to find.

[Racinbob 10,370]

2 hours ago, Adam Bish said:

its too bad deere and simplicity are the only ones still building a garden tractor, and you have to spend 7-8k to get anything with beef built into it. toro distroyed wheelhorse, mtd did the same to cub cadet, and as far as that goes briggs has succeeded in making simplicty a mere shadow of what it once was.

 

This has been discussed before but with you being a newbie to this forum and Wheel Horses I'll summarize again. I lived just 15 miles outside of South Bend for 45 years and when Toro bought them as well as when they moved the plant out. Being a major employer in the area it created quite a fuss. Toro tried to calm folks by saying they wouldn't change the name or move the plant. Their intent was mainly for marketing purposes. Let's face it, Wheel Horse was pretty bad at marketing and we continue to see the results. I have to give them credit. They did try. The decision to move the plant didn't sit well with folks but the bottom line is that it was a business decision that they had to make. When the decided to stop production in 2007 again, it was  business decision they had to make. We live in a throw away society today and people are willing to pay for the junk that's sold at the big box stores because of the price point and then replace it a few years later. Why spend $5k when they could spend a third of that? Quality just doesn't seem to matter anymore. They also didn't have the financial support that the farming line offered John Deere. What they did do was keep the design as it was and maintained interchangeability of attachments and many parts over the decades. Many parts are still available new and what isn't can be found with just a little leg work.

I have been on Wheel horses since 1960 and to this day I have a passion for them. Their design is second to none and has been so since I first sat my butt on one at the age of 5. They are as durable and anything made and when they do need repairs it is simple and yes, the parts are out there if you just look. Without seeing it I can't pinpoint what is causing your sloppy steering but I can assure you it's a simple fix if you know what to do. Take the time to look around here and you'll get all the information you'll ever need. The steering on my 1960 and 1968 are probably tighter than they were when they rolled out of South bend. My cost? Minimal because i knew how to fix the original parts. I hate to say it but at this point I think it needs to be said. You come on here basically slamming Wheel Horses. Dozens of members here rush to help out in any way they can but that approach understandably make us reluctant. Maybe you didn't intend to come across as you did or maybe it just hit me wrong but that's the way it sounded to me. Yes, these tractors are different. But to us here we wouldn't want it any other way. That difference is what make Wheel horses the fine machines that they are.

With that said, good luck on your C-160 and keep us posted.