Having some problems...

[WH69GT-14 0]

Hey everyone. Of course with all the snow going on up here my GT-14 has decided to throw a little fit and I'm having some issues. First off I had replaced the PTO clutch off it with one from one off my other GT-14 because it wasn't working so I could use my snowblower instead of my plow on it. When I went out to plow (hadn't put the snowblower on yet) it was idling really rough and the battery wasn't recharging and the tractor would die after a few minutes. Came on here, did some searching around, figured I had a fuel problem and a stator issue. Found a leak in my fuel tank, stole one from the other tractor (also broken but not in the same place anybody have one that won't let water in my tank? ) and replaced it as well all the fuel lines and it seems to be running fine after this. Including the stator???? I haven't retested output yet, but the tractor stays charged for now, and I've been too busy catching up on cleaning snow to check it out. When I had checked it the first time the stator was only putting out 22 volts AC (the 3rd wire off the RR was putting off .02 DC and it's NOT connected and NEVER was, just a wire nut on it ) worked fine though the whole time I've owned it and seems to be running fine now. Just seems as though somethings a little fishy . Thanks ahead for any assistance you can give me.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

I would guess that since the GT-14's originally had Solid State ignition, they probably were equipped with a 3 lead 10 amp stator - one lead for the ignition (from a separate section), and two leads for AC charging output to the rectifier/regulator. 22 VAC to the R/R is not unheard of in the lower amp system, but the R/R must match the output of the stator. (a 15 amp R/R won't work)

The two wires from the stator must connect to the A.C. terminals on the R/R and the bugged wire you have should be connected between the "B+" terminal on the R/R and the "R" terminal on the ignition switch. There is no way your tractor is charging if this wire is not connected. :hide:

[WH69GT-14 0]

It's just hanging out the side, with a wire nut on it. I can take a pic if you want???

[WH69GT-14 0]

Also, wouldn't it not charge anyway even if it was connected since the output on that wire was only .02?

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

Nah..... I don't really need to see a picture of a disconnected wire to know that it should be hooked up so the alternator works.

If the output was only .02 VDC, the R/R could be bad, but make sure that there is a good ground at the mounting bolts for the R/R and between the engine, frame, and where ever the R/R mounts before you get a new one.

If you have a test light, hook it between the bugged wire and battery ground, start the engine, and see if the light works. Loading the R/R might produce different results.

[WH69GT-14 0]

I tested the grounds, they were fine. Tested with the test light and got nothing. The ignition switch is definitely not original (in the off position it's not actually off, it's in accessory) and one click is off, next click is run, next click is start. Does not say "R" on it anywhere so there is nowhere for me to hook up the homeless wire. Thank you for your help, I've been :hide:

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

Which terminal was disconnected?

Does the rr have 3 pins in a row or two rows with 2 and 1?

What vintage is the engine?

? :hide:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

Rolf - before you start on the "3 terminals in a row automatically denotes a 10 amp R/R" again, you better go look at THIS.

In the late 60's & the 70's they could sometimes be identified that way - if they were untouched originals. 30 or 40 years (and several potential repairs/replacements) later, they could have anything on there - including an aftermarket R/R.

A lot of the breakerless ignitions have been changed over to 12V battery ignitions too, and who knows if the original 3 wire stator was replaced with a 2 wire unit and what amperage it is. :hide:

[WH69GT-14 0]

How can I tell if it's been switched or not? Could you tell from pics or just tell me what to look for/ what it's supposed to look like/what to look for?? :hide:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

I went back through and found the pics of when you first got it and I don't see any breaker points or a cover where they would be, so I'll say it still has the breakerless ignition.

I did some research and came up with P/N 237879-S 15 amp stator as being the one used in the K-321 60125B engine on the GT-14. Used 15 amp R/R's are plentiful, and are also still available new.

[refracman 167]

A 12v system has a automotive type coil and points it also takes a different ignition switch.

Both my GT14s have the 10amp stator and only have 2 wires.

I have never checked to see what rectifier amperage was either. I know I have put 20 amp rec. on a 10 amp system with no problems, charged OK. And thru the yrs had to have put a 10 amp on a 15 amp that worked OK.

Also on all the rectifiers i have come across for kohlers and onans when in a wheel horse appplication they are 3 terminal. Either 3 across where the end terminals are stator and middle goes to the switch and 2 terminals above and one below where the 2 uppers are stator and lower to switch.

Now I know I have not seen everything nor claim too. So whats is the implications if the different rectifer's are switched?

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

The old Kohler K series charging systems were 10, 15, 25, or 30 amp. Initially the Kohler R/R for the 10 amp was supposed to have 3 terminals in a row, the 15 amp was 3 in an "L" formation, the 25 amp R/R had 3 short pigtails, and the 30 amp system used a 4 wire stator with a full-wave rectifier.

I have already run across aftermarket 15 amp R/R's with different placements of the two "A.C." and single "B+" terminals, so I always make sure I check them before installation.

According to sources, the only difference between the a 10 amp alternator and a 15 amp alternator (battery ignition engines) was one less magnet in the flywheel for the 10 amp system. The stators are supposed to be the same. (pole and windings count)

The engines with breakerless ignition have to have a 3 wire stator, but only two of the wires are for the alternator. (The other wire is power for the ignition.) Stators for the breakerless ignition were either 10 amp or 15 amp and there is two different part numbers. (I do have more faith in Kohler's information than I do with information from Toro.) That is also why the stator for a breakerless ignition K series engine is $215 and the "normal" 2 wire part is around $60.

I have no clue what happens if R/R's are not matched with stators per the amperage output. I would imagine that a higher rated R/R would be fine on a lower amp stator, but would think that a lower amp R/R would burn up if used on a higher amp stator. :hide:

[WH69GT-14 0]

I just realized that I actually never posted pics of this GT-14

I will do so asap tomorrow

For now...

is this pic of the coil what you're talking about????

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

That's a battery ignition coil, which is not original to your tractor.

It's hard to tell what else has been changed, so you'll have to investigate it on your own or take it to a shop that can help you. :hide:

[WH69GT-14 0]

Sorry to bother you again but does this mean that the R/R is not part of the charging system now???? Forgive me for being :imstupid: but I don't really understand what you're saying... I'm capable of figuring it out if you give me a direction.

[Teddy da Bear 11]

I believe mine has been switched over from breakerless ignition on my GT with the loader. It now has a coil and condensor which I believe Glenn told me is the sign it had been switched.

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

First lets determine the age of the engine. It may well have been replaced.

What is the serial number? :hide:

[glenn27 71]

That's a battery ignition coil, which is not original to your tractor.

It's hard to tell what else has been changed, so you'll have to investigate it on your own or take it to a shop that can help you.

TT is right there--that is an automotive type coil--off an older model of something, maybe with a points/breaker system. They had mounted to the top of your heat shield that protects the gas tank. OEM for your's should be an oblong-with rounded edges-shaped box,-on the right front of the engine--faceing the engine.

Like stated abve--you need the model/spec. number off that engine--to find what you have..

And with the coil mounted there--how can you put the hood back on? :hide:

[WH69GT-14 0]

The Model # is K321S The Spec# is 60149d The Serial # is unreadable in a couple of places but I can post what I can make out if you need it?

The hood goes on just fine :hide:

[Brrly1 1,146]

Glenn I have a couple GT's with my coil mounted exactly like his. No problem. And of course the ignition system has been changed over from electronic to points. Of course mine is also a 72 GT. Burly

[htopjimmy26 3]

Not to stir the pot but, I just ran that spec# thru kohler and it puked out a wheelhorse engine with a breaker points ingnition and 15 amp stator. Good luck :hide:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

Did you run the spec # as 60149d, or just 60149?

[htopjimmy26 3]

60149 -The D version shows but, only miniblocks and shorblock. What does that last letter mean? :hide:

[htopjimmy26 3]

I have a 60322D- K321 and it has breaker points. :hide:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

What does that last letter mean?

It denotes a revision on the original build specifications.

Say Wheel Horse called Kohler to spec out a K-321 engine for a new model. Kohler already has basic engines, so all they need to do is change a few parts to match the request from Wheel Horse. Once Wheel Horse receives the engines, their engineers see something that needs "tweaked" to fit better, etc., so Kohler revises that model to meet the new request. Each time a revision is made, the letter changes.

The K-321's in the GT-14 models used the 90 degree air cleaner extension/adapter, and (as far as I can tell) originally had the breakerless ignition, which was also used starting with the 1969 R/C/E 12 models. The "standard" garden tractors did return to battery ignition in 1973 (10/12/14/16 automatic & 8 speed models) which was also the last year for the GT-14. (but they were supposedly just a continuation of the 1972 model and probably still used the breakerless ignition)