Fuel Pump

[Racinbob 11,977]

I brought home a nice 854 yesterday. No, it’s not mine. It belongs to the guys who gave me the 657 and 500 Special. I’m doing them a favor and fixing a few things that need attention. Right off the starting line I ran into an issue. It needs a fuel pump. To my surprise it has a vacuum pump, not one with the lever. I can’t find one anywhere. I know a lot of folks will say put an electric pump on it but in this situation that will be the last resort. Now, since the lever type pumps operate off the cam will one work on this motor? Has anyone tried it? From what I’m seeing the lever on a K181 pump is different than the big block motors but I found some for the K181.

[Daddy Don 909]

Try ebay or amazon they have a few vacuum pumps for sale.

[buckrancher 2,694]

If all you need is the diaphragm I make those send me a pm

 

brian

[Racinbob 11,977]

1 hour ago, Daddy Don said:

Try ebay or amazon they have a few vacuum pumps for sale.

 

Tons of pumps on ebay but not like this one.

 

Incoming Brian.

[Shynon 7,482]

2 hours ago, buckrancher said:

If all you need is the diaphragm I make those send me a pm

 

brian

That's what I did and it works fine

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,239]

Bob, took a couple of snapshots of the pump on my pretty much original 854...does it look the same?

[Racinbob 11,977]

Not quite the same Terry.

 

 

I can see your spec # and it's the same as I'm dealing with as well as being correct for an 854. I'm assuming the motor is original but can't be certain. Does your pump have the arm that rides on the cam? This one also had the same steel fuel line that got damaged. A hose was put in place but I was planning on putting a copper line I made on it.

 

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,239]

Sorry Bob, never had the pump off.     I believe the diaphragm was replaced just before it came into my possession ..  Just learning about the kohlers myself...

 

But , if it was a vacuum type, would it not have two sets of hoses like on some teckys?

Edited February 24, 2016 by Terry M

[buckrancher 2,694]

9 hours ago, Racinbob said:

 

. Now, since the lever type pumps operate off the cam will one work on this motor? Has anyone tried it? From what I’m seeing the lever on a K181 pump is different than the big block motors but I found some for the K181.

 

YES but you need one for a K181,k161,K141

 

Brian

Edited February 24, 2016 by buckrancher

[wildman 205]

They did make them pumps vacuum style, yours should be mechanical  

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,239]

Just now, wildman said:

They did make them pumps vacuum style, yours should be mechanical  

Now I know..Thanks.    

[Racinbob 11,977]

On a hunch I'm thinking yours is mechanical Terry. Since this tractor it isn't mine I'm a bit hesitant to tear into it but in my mind I questioned my findings today so I went as far as pulling the mounting screws to verify that it was indeed a vacuum pump. Yup, it is. The owners are a bit hard to get in contact with and I was hoping to discuss this with them but I know they will say do whatever it takes. Since it has to be fixed anyways I'm going to open it up tomorrow. It's already broke so I can't break it further.......can I?  

[squonk 43,911]

You can't spoil a rotten egg!

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,239]

The tops of the pumps (mine and bob's) do appear to look different....all I do know is my 854 is the nicest  starting and running tractor I've ever had .

Curious to find out about your pump Bob...Let us know what it takes to get it going.

[buckrancher 2,694]

The difference is the check valve style the one on the bobs 854 is the old style the other is the newer type

 

Brian

Edited February 24, 2016 by buckrancher

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,239]

Thanks Brian.   do they both take the same replacement diaphram?    or rebuild kit?

[buckrancher 2,694]

if the newer one is the pulse vacuum type then yes if I ever get a chance I will post pics of the inside parts of the two pumps

 

Brian

about the metal fuel line from the pump to the carb the metal line is oem the compression fittings and rubber compression seals are Parker brand fittings and are available from Graingers

Bob Maynard was selling them also if you need some

 

Brian

[rjg854 12,232]

 

I've used one of Brian's diaphrams, will no problem at all.  This is the vacuum type fuel pump on a Commando 8.  Again thanks Brian.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Ranger13148
doubled text

[squonk 43,911]

I got those compression seal right from Kohler. I don't have the # off hand though.

[Racinbob 11,977]

Took it off this morning and here it is.

 

 

Opened it up and it looks like a diaphragm will do the trick. I'm gonna get one from Brian. Clean things up real good and away we go.

 

 

Now guys, educate me. This internet photo shows the type of diaphragm on the pumps I've messed with before.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. The arm on the mechanical pump pushes up on the diaphragm and the spring returns it. The vacuum type uses pulses internally as the motor runs and 'flexes' the diaphragm. The center circle on the one I have looks to have additional material to allow it to move more. Hard to explain so I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Did this diaphragm start out completely flat and the use stretched it or was it made with the extra material?

 

As far as the fuel line goes, the steel line was leaking because the rubber doohinky was falling apart. I just decided to bend up some copper line and use compression fittings.

 

 

[buckrancher 2,694]

originals are flat. Stretched from use and fuel makes them look like the one you have

it is probably stiff and lost its flexibility

The one in the internet pic is for the lever type the lever pulls down and the spring push's back up The diaphragm is hooked to the mechanical lever

 

Brian

[Racinbob 11,977]

You got that right. It's kinda like a tater chip now.

[Racinbob 11,977]

Well, a week ago I didn't even know Kohler ever used this type of fuel pump. Now I do and fixing them is a piece of cake. A big to Brian. His diaphragm worked perfectly. The mating surfaces on the pump halves were pretty rough so I cleaned them up starting with 600 grit on glass and finishing with 1000. I just sent a note off to the owner and I'll be heading to the coast Saturday to return it.

[Racinbob 11,977]

Well scratch all the jubilation I had 6 hours ago. I let the dogs out and decided to take a look at it and it's leaking severely. It definitely looks like at the diaphragm. I'm befuzzled. Take another look at post #20. I had those surfaces polished perfectly with 1000 grit on glass. Any ideas? I'll post a picture tomorrow but right now I'd just like to say #&!% it. Why does this stuff seem to happen when you're doing a favor?

[prondzy 3,889]

Double check the 4 screws to make sure they are tight. My next observation would be if you made new copper lines from the fuel pump did you install the kohler rubber washers inside the compression fittings? And did you use thread tape or sealant on the threads for the fittings on the fuel pump after you removed them??