Project Horse Gut

[Stigian 1,234]

Hi all, I'm not quite sure if I'm posting this in the right section of the forum or not.. It's not quite "other brand" or "wheel Horse" but it is certainly modified

What do you do if you have a tractor that's got all the bells and whistles you could ever need but is so ugly you can't even look at it?






This is a joint project between Nigel and I as Nigel needed a new project and I needed a break from Why Not!
The ugly machine above is a German built Gutbrod 1032 which is actually a very strong and capable machine, it's just a shame about the looks..

Even just removing the body was an improvement




Now as you all know my taste in tractors I expect you can guess where this build is going and you will also of worked out how we came up with the Horse Gut name

We didn't plan to build HG like this, but as we had a few WH body parts kicking about we thought we would try them on.. The instant grin that both Nigel and I had showed we were on to a winner
What do you guys think?






Once we had finished balancing bits of bodywork and grinning (ok, we may still be grinning about it ), we started work. The Gutbrod was missing a few parts one of which was the rod that holds the pedals on, so to make life easier out came the rubber mounted engine.




Measuring up the final length of the pedal rod.




Both brake pedals fitted, yes both, it has independent brakes each side. The plate on the top pedal turns to unlock the pedals giving you independent brakes.




The other side of the rod has the clutch pedal and a pivot thingy that connects the rear brake on the left side.




Nigel cut down the Gutbrod fender pan mounts.




To get the fender pan closer to the tires/tyres.




The Gutbrod exhaust muffler had to go as it was ugly, badly repaired and full of holes. So we decided on a rear exit system..
As this is a budget build a bit of recycling was in order, so an old wheel barrow frame was dug out




A bit of chopping and welding later...




Fitted but in need of a clean up.



 

The electrics which looked a mess wasn't to bad once I had removed all the bits that were not needed such as indicators, horn and headlamps which had side and main beam!
The Dynostart was full of water, but once drained and dried out the water does not seam to of done any damage which was quite lucky.
It would of been nice to of kept the original Gutbrod ignition barrel and key, but alas the barrel was a it past it.. So I fitted an odd WH barrel I had kicking about the place. Just a simple "on" "off" and "start" sort of barrel.




As for the engine.. Well, it want's to run but won't quite.. It try's to run but is having problems with over fueling.. I will have the carb apart again tomorrow to see if I missed any muck hiding away, but the carb is quite worn with plenty of spindle play, so a carb swap may be in order at some point.

And that's where the build has got to so far.   It's nice building something different but usable and it's nice doing a joint project. Nigel and I have the same warped thinking when it come to projects

[callum12 256]

loving the sound of this project!
plenty of your world renowned videos please! 

Callum

[DougC 2,641]

What you got there is a horse of a different color.................     Have fun and keep us up to date with the pics.

[JC 1965 1,528]

Your skills amaze me Ian. I can't wait to see more progress and of course the end result. Keep us posted and thanks for sharing.    

[Don1977 604]

That frame looks a lot like an old Simplicity frame. As you've already said the look went south from there. The Wheel Horse hood and fender is a great improvement.
It will look great after it gets the Stig treatment.
With the odd ball machine already in this tread here's mine. I broke down and bought a Harbor Freight engine for the Ford Shortdog. Wanted an older engine just could find one around here.






 

[Horse46 519]

Ian b4 you go any further I think you should consider fabricating some new clothing, it kinda remind me (if you squint you eye's and look through the bottom of milk bottles, after ten pints of larger) of the KTM RC8  Edgy! Ok just a bit angular then.

[tractorhogg 611]

A real improvement to the Gut look. I'm looking forward to following this thread.

[953 nut 52,616]

       Love the projects you guys bring us!   

[Pullstart 60,488]

Amazed with the materials you keep around in your spares pile!  I wouldn't dare call it a junk pile, that exhaust is far from junk... Keep up the good work fellas

[Stigian 1,234]

On 18/11/2015, 13:34:24, callum12 said:

loving the sound of this project!
plenty of your world renowned videos please! 

Callum

 

Thanks Callum.. Ahh yes videos..  I forgot to post them up so here they are.. 

 

 

 

 

On 18/11/2015, 14:11:27, DougC said:

What you got there is a horse of a different color.................     Have fun and keep us up to date with the pics.

 

It's close color wise, bit of a faded to orange red so not not far off... More build pics on the way

 

 

On 18/11/2015, 14:18:55, JC 1965 said:

Your skills amaze me Ian. I can't wait to see more progress and of course the end result. Keep us posted and thanks for sharing.    

 

Thanks JC,  I'm self taught skills whys so if this old Stig like creature can do it, anyone can

More progress coming up.

 

 

On 18/11/2015, 15:06:41, Don1977 said:

That frame looks a lot like an old Simplicity frame. As you've already said the look went south from there. The Wheel Horse hood and fender is a great improvement.
It will look great after it gets the Stig treatment.
With the odd ball machine already in this tread here's mine. I broke down and bought a Harbor Freight engine for the Ford Shortdog. Wanted an older engine just could find one around here.






 

 

Thanks Don, I've had the odd comment on YT saying it looks like a Simplicity frame so your not the only one who has noticed

That's a cool machine, it looks a right laugh to drive.. You could always make a hood and side to hide the new engine.. Maybe with some flames painted on?

 

On 18/11/2015, 15:48:40, Horse46 said:

Ian b4 you go any further I think you should consider fabricating some new clothing, it kinda remind me (if you squint you eye's and look through the bottom of milk bottles, after ten pints of larger) of the KTM RC8  Edgy! Ok just a bit angular then.

 

Thanks Horse, yes the Gutbrod frame does have some strange angles going on like the KTM

 

 

On 18/11/2015, 21:28:53, 953 nut said:

       Love the projects you guys bring us!   

 

Thanks Richard, glad you like it.

 

 

On 19/11/2015, 11:41:41, pullstart said:

Amazed with the materials you keep around in your spares pile!  I wouldn't dare call it a junk pile, that exhaust is far from junk... Keep up the good work fellas

 

Thanks dude, there isn't much I call junk these days, uses can be found for most things. The good work will be kept up.

Nigel and I have been having fun trying to get the engine running right. Were not there quite yet but certainly heading in the right direction.

Changing the spark plug from a long reach to a short reach made a vast difference to the quality of the spark, we now have a stong health spark but we will be fitting an electronic ignition kit to make it 100% reliable..

 

Although we did kinda have the engine running on the original carb, but the carb is so worn with lots of play (and air leaks) in/around the spindles that the best name for it is junk!

So out of interest we thought we would try a pit bike carb that Nigel had kicking about the place..

 

 

 

As we couldn't find any rubber pipe the right size for a temporary inlet manifold the rubber was removed from an old mower pedal and used

The engine wanted to run but as the carb is a bit too small it was never going to work that well...   So.. a correct size pit bike carb will be ordered and I will make a steel inlet fannymold..

 

 

 

I have slowly been beating the fender pan back into shape. It came from one of Karl's racing mowers and as well as being battered during racing it gained a few extra holes... 61 holes in total!

 

 

 

You know it's been hit hard when it has a 1 inch kink in it!

 

 

 

Lot's of hammer work later it's looking straighter.

 

 

 

And by the end of play yesterday, even straighter with the cracks and some of the smaller holes welded up..

It's hard going panel beating a rear fender pan as the steel is so thick, but I'm really enjoying it

 

 

 

 

The fender pan is hard work but it's getting there slowly. To see where the smaller dents are I had to strip off the red powder coating which wasn't much fun as it's hard stuff!

I gave the back of the pan a quick coat of blue paint and gave it a light sanding back once it had dried..

The blue bits left are all low spots which need to be beaten out..

 

 

 

Slowly the blue bits are going as the pan gets straighter.

 

 

 

This is the corner where the big kink was

 

 

 

That's enough about the fender pan, now onto an inlet manifold for the new carb..

 

Lathe work has been interesting due to problems with both Nigel's and my lathes but we got there in the end..

 

Starting with a bit of pipe being cleaned up.

 

 

 

The inside was bored out a bit so it would be a tight fit on the original manifold.

 

 

 

Boring out the mounting flange.

 

 

 

A taper was cut so the pipe could be firmly welded on.

 

 

 

Like so

 

 

 

Now that's a nice bead of weld

 

 

 

Back on the lathe to turn the welds down and give a nice flat mounting surface..

 

 

 

A bit of trimming, cleaning, welding and painting later the carb bolts on       It's a shame the carb has problems but a new one should be arriving today

 

And so the engine troubles continue!!    Even with a new carb and posh inlet manifold the engine would still not run right, and then I noticed a bubble!

For what ever reason there was some liquid around one of the head bolts, and it was bubbling!

 

 

 

Only one thing to do.. Yep, start pulling the head off to see if the head gasket had gone!

 

 

 

As it turned out the head bolts were not as tight as they should of been and the head wasn't as flat as it shuld of been..

Hhhmm.. Plenty of carbon in there!

 

 

 

The valves badly needed grinding back in as they didn't sit to well, also the stems were coated in carbon and crud so out they came for a clean and to be lapped in.

 

 

 

With the engine back together it ran..... Just as badly as before! 

 

It was then noticed that a lot of fumes were being blown out the oil breather which means piston ring problems! Hopefully the rings are just stuck rather then broken.. Time will tell..

 

 

Oh... And this turned up and a panel doner for Gut horse!

 

 

The trouble is it's too nice to break up, well I think so

[callum12 256]

looking good, best of luck for the piston ring situation, i've got a 1940's lister d stationary engine, that has low compression, smoked from the breather and puffed blue smoke will running. 5 minutes with a bore hone and cordless drill to take off the glaze and all the problems are sorted, compression is lethal now! judging by the look of the bore it looks like it could do with a hone. 

 

and yes that horse it far too nice to break up, i think you better give it to me! haha 

 

callum 

[JC 1965 1,528]

Thanks for the video Ian. I can't wait for more updates on this project. Hope you don't have serious engine problems.

[Stigian 1,234]

On 02/12/2015 at 11:14 PM, callum12 said:

looking good, best of luck for the piston ring situation, i've got a 1940's lister d stationary engine, that has low compression, smoked from the breather and puffed blue smoke will running. 5 minutes with a bore hone and cordless drill to take off the glaze and all the problems are sorted, compression is lethal now! judging by the look of the bore it looks like it could do with a hone. 

 

and yes that horse it far too nice to break up, i think you better give it to me! haha 

 

callum 

 

Thanks Callum, were not 100% sure the rings are that much of a problem, but a new main jet, float and float bowl gasket have been ordered from Germany for the original carb..  It may take a little while for them to arrive!

 

 

On 03/12/2015 at 2:03 PM, JC 1965 said:

Thanks for the video Ian. I can't wait for more updates on this project. Hope you don't have serious engine problems.

 

Your welcome JC, another video on the way at the end of this rather large update..

 

The bonnet/hood is now mounted and with a bit of trimming we found a way to hold the dash panels in place

 

 

 

 

Which also means that now we don't have to break the donor Cammo 8 up     And yes it's for sale..

 

 

With a bit of trimming the battery was made to fit in it's original postion. You can also see how the bit of WH bodywork under the dash surround is fitted..  Behind the bolts are a couple of captive nuts welded to a bracket which is welded to the chassis.

 

 

 

No idea what this fuel tank is from, but it's a nice size..

 

 

 

As you will of noticed we had to cut part of the dash surround out to make the tank fit.

Before you ask there will be some rubber going between the fuel tank and the battery terminals to stop and accidental shorting out from happening.

 

 

 

The gap under the front of the dash surround needed sorting..

 

 

 

So a patch was cut to fit the gap..

 

 

 

Nigel cleaning up one of the front wheels.

 

 

 

I think this plate came from a Wh 314 but I'm not 100% sure..

 

 

 

But it does make a nice heavy duty bracket for holding the fuel tank in place..  Tank and bracket upside down in this photo.

 

 

 

I thought I'd have a play with the camera affects setting for this welding photo..  If it's not blue it's black and white

 

 

 

We found that the welds that hold the steering column to the chassis had cracked, so as well as welding the cracks up we added a gusset to add some extra strength..  A view from the side..

 

 

 

From the front you can see the gusset has had a shaped plate plug welded to it..

 

 

 

So when the body under the dash bit slides on..

 

 

 

It's a perfect fit

 

 

 

 

I can't help but grin everytime I look at Horse Gut.. She does look good

 

 

 

 

When I got into the workshop the other morning I found Nigel had left me a kinda message on the bonnet!...  I can't decide if Nigel was just checking he had my name spelt right or it was just a hint that I should clean the paint off or not

 

 

 

Close up you can see how thick the paint is, you can also see how bad Nigel's writing is

 

 

 

Most of the front of the bonnet paint free.. It was nice to see the detail coming back that was hidden under many coats..

 

 

 

Trying the Horse Gut for size, not bad but the seat needs to be raised a couple of inches..

 

 

 

Until we dropped HG down almost ground level we had never noticed how skinny it looks around the middle!  Also lower makes it look longer for some reason!

 

 

 

So I had a play with some cardboard to see if some extra material of the chassis and fender pan would improve things....  It most certainly did    The fender pan needs a few tweaks to give the front a bit more angle.

 

 

 

As Nigel will have a very full workshop for the next week, HG found her way into my workshop.. HG is only 4 inches longer than the Cammo 8 which is up for sale by the way

 

 

 

[Stigian 1,234]

Oops, I forgot to add the video! 

 

https://youtu.be/Rim0dc5f1Gc

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,487]

Ian, lookin good man. Cant wait to see the final,product. One comment, your shops to big now, see the trouble u got into with more room.

 

Glenn

[Stigian 1,234]

On 15/12/2015 at 11:36 PM, JERSEYHAWG / Glenn said:

Ian, lookin good man. Cant wait to see the final,product. One comment, your shops to big now, see the trouble u got into with more room.

 

Glenn

 

Thanks Glenn, I will be getting some space back tomorrow as Horse Gut will be moving back into Nigel's workshop..

 

Some good news Guy's, at long last Horse Gut is not only up and running, but also driving

 

Part of the problem as we found out was the new float was too tall, which meant when the float went up it bottomed out on the carb body before shutting off the fuel!

 

Once the old float and jet went back in the flooding stopped.

 

One thing that was really bugging me was why the spark was so weak at the plug until the ignition was turned off when it produced a nice fat bright spark just the once!  This got me thinking, so I did a little research..

And found an external condenser on a car engine is wired onto the positive side of the coil, where  as small engines say a Kohler or a Mag the condenser is wired onto the negitive side of the coil...

 

No prizes for guess which way we had it wired

 

Soooo... armed with a condenser wired in the right way, and also the base jet settings for the Bing carb the engine was soon brought to life 

 

Of course all this happened before Nigel had turned up, so I carefully timed it that just as Nigel was pulling in I was driving Horse Gut out the workshop!!

 

The look on Nigel's face was priceless.. At first he thought I was driving the Cammo 8 without a bonnet, until he noticed I was driving past the Cammo 8 which did still have it's bonnet on!

 

Picture a look of confused/think your seeing things/disbelief all rolled into one which after a minute gave way to a big grin

 

 

 

That was Friday, today has been all about the hood..

 

Cleaning layers of paint off is never fun!

 

 

 

There was at least four thick layers!

 

 

 

So with the thick old paint off and a quick coat of red oxide sprayed on to stop it rusting (the weather is rather damp at the mo) I could get a good look at the damage the thick paint hid!

 

 

 

Lot's of hammer and dolly work later the hood is starting to look a lot straighter

 

 

 

 

And for your viewing pleasure here the latest video which includes HG being driven

 

https://youtu.be/ztt7AVlr-lY

Edited December 21, 2015 by Stigian

[Stigian 1,234]

The hole was where a wing/rear view mirror was bolted on (the hood came from a racing mower), but the hole has now gone along with a few extras that were not needed.

 

 

 

Starting with a sheet of ally which we rolled a rib into.

 

 

 

Nigel doing some light shaping of the plate.

 

 

 

A check for fit..

 

 

 

And the almost finished dash panel, all it needs a a choke cable fitted.

 

 

Ok, not strictly part of the Horse Gut story any more as the Cammo 8 is up for sale (anyone? ) but as I had a machine move about in my workshop I thought I'd grab a pic

 

 

 

Now you see the hydraulic pump bracket..

 

 

 

Now you don't     As it wasn't needed and looked ugly, Nigel cut it off and gave the remaining bracket a nice curve

 

 

 

A couple more "arty blue" shots of Nigel welding..

 

 

 

 

Some rather heavy duty welding too as the chassis extension plates went on..

 

 

 

I don't think it will move in a hurry

 

 

 

A distance shot to show you how the plates give HG a more substantial and "less thin in the middle" look.

 

 

 

A strange shaped plate in the making..

 

 

 

Which got tacked on in situ..

 

 

 

Then this weird bloke welded it up

 

 

I've had two of these frames in my "might come in handy one day" collection for about 12 years..  Yesterday was the day to use one..

 

 

 

Some cutting, welding and drilling later it had turn into this spacer.

 

 

 

Which fits here to raise the front of the fender pan up a bit..

 

 

 

Take a rusty and dented Gutbrod bonnet/hood..

 

 

 

And cut the first of two patches out of it..

 

 

 

Just in case your getting bored of welding shots, here's a grinding shot instead

 

 

 

Ta-daa..  An extended fender pan at the front.

 

 

 

 

Brackets were made and welded to the chassis to stop the fender pan extensions from flapping about the place..

 

Digging through my spares I found this universal choke cable.. On the back it says it's for various triumphs, Escorts, Hillmans and an Austin Princess I guess it's rather old but it will do for HG

 

 

 

The fender pan extension edges had a bit of a tweaking to follow the lines down and to add a bit of strength.

 

 

 

We also reached a build milestone today.. With all the fabrication done the time had come to pull HG apart for cleaning and painting.

 

 

 

A huge amount of grease and dirt had found it's way to the front of the gearbox over the years!

 

 

 

Only a few small parts left to come off and strip down is done.. A good place to finish 2015

 

 

[Stigian 1,234]

Morning chaps, the build continues....

 

With HG pulled apart the fun job of cleaning and repainting loads of parts could start... 

 

The gearbox got it's first coat of red oxide..

 

 

 

It always amazes me how a quick coat of paint can make something look a 1000 times better

 

 

 

Before we went any further with painting we thought we should get the front axle off!!   The axle pin had other ideas and refused to move using all the normal methods, i.e a large hammer and block of wood.. Soooo.. Time for some welding..

 

 

 

One very large steel bar welded to the axle pin!

 

 

 

The heat from welding wasn't enough to talk the pin into moving, so it got more heat..

 

 

 

Until eventually the pin decided it had had enough and finally twisted loose then out!

 

 

 

Another milestone reached... Yep the first coat of shiny paint went on.. IH red which I had left from painting the 6x6 all those years ago..

 

 

 

Not too bad after the first coat.

 

 

 

Waiting for red oxide to dry on the chassis..

 

 

 

The front axle got it's first top coat too..

 

The chassis was lightly cooked to help the top coat stick..

 

 

 

That's the underside done..

 

 

 

It's about this point that Nigel is wondering if I'm going to post a certain photo that if seen could be the end of the "hard man" image

 

 

The wheels got a coat of IH white paint, yes it was also left from painting the 6x6

 

 

 

Top of the chassis top coated..

 

 

 

Fresh red steering parts.

 

 

 

Red parts everywhere!

 

 

 

 

Not red parts!   The wheels did come up very nice, it's a shame the photos a bit blurred.. 

 

 

 

And to finish this update... Yes more red parts, prop shaft and a second coated gearbox..

 

 

 

As for that certain photo.....

 

Yes that is Nigel hoovering! 

 

 

[Stigian 1,234]

The work bench in Nigel's workshop was needed over the weekend for building a racing mower, so we bolted as much as we could back together to make HG a rolling chassis..

 

 

 

 

HG certainly looks smaller off the bench

 

 

 

That's what you call deep pitting!

 

 

 

The deep pitting belongs to this part, the top bit of the chassis?/part the steering is welded to.. It must have a name but I've no idea what it is..!   Just out of shot on the right we had to let in some new metal as it had rusted away..

 

 

 

I guess the correct way to fix all the rust pitting would be to cut it out and weld in fresh metal, the trouble is we would of have to replace about 85% of the panel!

So after killing off all the rust on went the dreaded bondo/filler!!    I hate the stuff!

 

 

 

 

And that folks is where the build has got to. This coming week will be all about bolting yet more red parts back on and getting the fender pan and hood/bonnet ready for being sprayed.

 

 

 

[tractorhogg 611]

I really love the attention to detail you two are able to give this project. Really doing a GREAT job, and when HorseGut is finished it will be a legendary GT project. 

[JC 1965 1,528]

Congrats Ian, looks like you are well on your way to another winner.       Please keep us updated.   

[WNYPCRepair 1,875]

Very interesting project. Looks like it is going to turn out really nice. 

I have a couple of panels that are badly pitted like the one for the steering in your latest pics. What do you treat it with before you use bondo to fill in the pits?

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,487]

moving right along Ian. another good video to.

 

Glenn

[Stigian 1,234]

On 10/01/2016 at 1:38 PM, tractorhogg said:

I really love the attention to detail you two are able to give this project. Really doing a GREAT job, and when HorseGut is finished it will be a legendary GT project. 

 

Thanks Tractorhogg, I'm not sure about legendary but it sure will confuse a few people at shows

 

 

On 10/01/2016 at 1:53 PM, JC 1965 said:

Congrats Ian, looks like you are well on your way to another winner.       Please keep us updated.   

 

Thanks JC, an update on the way.

 

 

On 10/01/2016 at 2:47 PM, WNYPCRepair said:

Very interesting project. Looks like it is going to turn out really nice. 

I have a couple of panels that are badly pitted like the one for the steering in your latest pics. What do you treat it with before you use bondo to fill in the pits?

 

Hi Brian, I had to look up which rust killer it was as the label fell off years ago.....  Jenolite is the answer

 

 

On 10/01/2016 at 4:33 PM, JERSEYHAWG / Glenn said:

moving right along Ian. another good video to.

 

Glenn

 

Thanks Glenn, yeah this build does seem to be flying along at a fair old rate

 

 

That looks way better

 

 

 

Engine painted, still have the tins to do which will be sprayed at the same time as the bodywork.

 

 

 

The Dynostart getting a coat of red..

 

 

 

For a few  days now Nigel and I have been working on the fender pan and hood/bonnet.. It's been a lot of work to get the looking good, but it's been worth it..

 

Before..

 

 

 

 

After

 

 

 

 

Before (almost)

 

 

 

 

After

 

 

 

 

And to even the balance a bit (only a bit as I don't have any "during" photos of the fender pan)..

 

During..

 

 

[Stigian 1,234]

Morning/Afternoon or even Evening depending on where you are in the world, Project Horse Gut is now at one of those fun parts of the build... Paint

 

Paint.. Just one word, sounds easy... Well, the painting part was quite easy, finding the right paint was not!

So far all the parts we had painted red were with International Harvester red which I had left from painting my old 6x6 years ago.. Of course 3/4 of a tin isn't enough to paint all the parts and panels, so more red stuff had to be got..

A local agricultural supplier had the paint, we did question if it was the same shade as the "harvester" part had been dropped from the paint name making it International red, but we were told it's all the same shade!

 

When the paint arrived at the workshop (someone collected it for us) we opened it up only to find it quite a bit darker!

 

IH red on the left, International on the right!

 

 

 

So the tin was sent back and another tin was ordered...

 

 

 

At least this one said IH red on the side!

 

 

 

I'm sure you can guess what's coming next     Yep the new paint was also a darker shade than the old stuff,, but this time it was a deeper, richer red which we quite liked... In fact we quite liked it enough to paint HG in it..

Which meant everything we had painted so far had to be repainted!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Washing lines are handy

 

 

 

 

The chassis/trans/front end in it's new dashing shade..