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semper5

C145 won't start, complete newbie to engines here

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semper5

I tried to use the tractor to jump my Honda Valkyrie today. Then, neither would start. Wheelhorse just quit, and won't respond.

C145, newer battery, full tank, no blown fuses that I see. 

No rresponse from tractor, not even a click. I'm hoping someone might walk me through the steps to get her going. 

Thanks fo reading.

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AMC RULES
Try cleaning your battery contacts...got a good ground?   :scratchead:
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semper5

I've narrowed it down to the solenoid. Gotta replace it.

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semper5

Well, it wasn't the solenoid. Just replaced it, and still, no noises...

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shallowwatersailor

Like Craig said, check battery connections, and add checking fuses.

Manual trans: check safeties and clutch pedal switch.

Auto: check safeties and make sure motion lever is in neutral.

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squonk

If there's an ammeter check the connections. I have seen them burn and then you will have nothing. 

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tunahead72

Have you taken a voltage reading on your battery?

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953 nut
:twocents-02cents:   Since the problem began when you hooked up the jumpers to the battery I agree with Craig that the battery cable ends ( both ends ) could be the culprit. After cleaning and tightening all of your electrical connections and checked battery voltage take a small jumper wire from the battery positive terminal to the small terminal on the solenoid; it should turn the starter. If it turns over then you know the solenoid and starter are not the problem.

Let us know and we can step by step find the problem rather than looking down every rabbit hole.

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semper5

I have removed, cleaned, and tighten the battery connections. The battery is reading 12.55 volts. I used a small wire and touched to positive of battery, and small terminal on solenoid, and it turned. 

Thank you for helping, I appreciate your knowledge!

Whats next gentlemen?

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WNYPCRepair

Check all the fuses with a meter or test light, check all safety switches. 

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953 nut

Now that we know the solenoid will activate the starter properly the only other components in line that could prevent proper operation are the pedal interlock switch, PTO switch and the ignition switch along with their associates wiring. The PTO switch needs to be off and the pedal needs to be all the way down. Take a look at each to see if any wires have come loose and nothing looks burned. You should have battery voltage to the red wires coming into and out of the PTO switch when the ignition switch is in start and the PTO switch is off. If not, back up to the ignition switch. If battery voltage is present move on to the pedal switch red wires. Let us know what you find.

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semper5

The pto switch has been disconnected, and I find no associated wires to ensure they are connected together. In addition, there is no pedal switch either. I've had this tractor since May, and have never had to sit down or depress a pedal to start. My order of starting begins with ensuring the hydro-static control is centered, PTO off, then I start the tractor. All while standing. 

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shallowwatersailor

The pto switch has been disconnected, and I find no associated wires to ensure they are connected together. In addition, there is no pedal switch either. I've had this tractor since May, and have never had to sit down or depress a pedal to start. My order of starting begins with ensuring the hydro-static control is centered, PTO off, then I start the tractor. All while standing. 

Ah, a hydro. No clutch pedal. Probably the ignition switch would be checked next. Pull the wire bundle off the back and check continuity for each of the positions.

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953 nut

Did you check the 25 amp fuse as suggested by Brian? Sounds like the previous owner did a bit of rewiring. Having the Hydro control centered is a wonderful thing but is not shown in the wiring diagram. You said the PTO switch is disconnected and later said you make sure the PTO is off, :unsure: sounds like the wire from the ignition switch may go directly to the solenoid. Since the other switches are no longer there, try taking the small jumper wire from the battery to the "S" (red wire if it hasn't been cobbled too) on your ignition switch, should be the same as touching the small terminal of the solenoid.

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semper5

The 25amp fuse is good.

When I stated about the PTO being off, I check to ensure I disengage it before I start it.
The wire from the 's' on the switch goes directly to the small terminal on the solenoid. Touching the wire from battery positive to 's' on the switch engages the starter.

Edited by semper5

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953 nut

There is supposed to be a 25 amp fuse on the large red  wire from the battery side of the solenoid to the amp meter and then from the amp meter to the ignition switch. Use your volt meter and check for battery voltage at both ends of the fuse (check the condition of the fuse holder), if you only have voltage on the incoming side the fuse is blown. At the amp meter you should have battery voltage at both terminals, At the ignition switch you should have battery voltage at the "B" terminal. If at any point along that path you don't have voltage the wire or component that is between having it and loosing it is going to need to be replaced.

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semper5

There is a 25 amp fuse between the ampmeter and the positive side of the battery. There is also an extra 'thing', it is black, it has a 1/4 turn twist lock, and inside is a plastic piece, with metal on both ends. There is no continuity between that to the meter. I've no idea what it is, but, can I cut it out? Since there is a 25 amp fuse already?

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tractorhogg

Many times in attempting to diagnosee a problem, be it electrical or mechanical, we often rely on Occum's razor rather than Hickam's dictum in that we attempt to reduce the diagnosis to just one issue rather than what very often is a combination of issues or even coincidences. I have been guilty of this many times and will probably be guilty of it again. The most prevalent reason for failing to properly diagnose the problem is that we are not in a laboratory setting where we have access to a perfect tractor or control group tractor that we can use to manipulate the variables. This becomes problematic with a tractor that is not working, because of the number of working parts involved and the possibility of more than one issue. Electrical, spark, and carb issues seem to lead the way in these issues, but even something as simple as a brake issue can be plagued by this problem, which anyone that has bought a used vehicle may be able to attest too, love those shade tree brake jobs, not.

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953 nut
:woohoo:   YES, that sounds like another fuse holder and fuse, have no idea why the previous owner would put two fuses in series, but the one 25 amp fuse from the factory is all you need. Cut it out and make a good connection on the two wires that went to it.
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tractorhogg

BTW, I do not believe the issues with the motorcycle and the tractor are related or the same.
 

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semper5

Removed odd fuse, spliced a good connection, and old Wilbur started right up.

Thank you gentlemen for your assistance!!

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tractorhogg

Removed odd fuse, spliced a good connection, and old Wilbur started right up.

Thank you gentlemen for your assistance!!

Any idea what caused the problem in the first place or what was wrong with the motorcycle?

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shallowwatersailor

Many times in attempting to diagnosee a problem, be it electrical or mechanical, we often rely on Occum's razor rather than Hickam's dictum in that we attempt to reduce the diagnosis to just one issue rather than what very often is a combination of issues or even coincidences. I have been guilty of this many times and will probably be guilty of it again. The most prevalent reason for failing to properly diagnose the problem is that we are not in a laboratory setting where we have access to a perfect tractor or control group tractor that we can use to manipulate the variables. This becomes problematic with a tractor that is not working, because of the number of working parts involved and the possibility of more than one issue. Electrical, spark, and carb issues seem to lead the way in these issues, but even something as simple as a brake issue can be plagued by this problem, which anyone that has bought a used vehicle may be able to attest too, love those shade tree brake jobs, not.

Love the reference to Occam's razor!

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tractorhogg

Many times in attempting to diagnosee a problem, be it electrical or mechanical, we often rely on Occum's razor rather than Hickam's dictum in that we attempt to reduce the diagnosis to just one issue rather than what very often is a combination of issues or even coincidences. I have been guilty of this many times and will probably be guilty of it again. The most prevalent reason for failing to properly diagnose the problem is that we are not in a laboratory setting where we have access to a perfect tractor or control group tractor that we can use to manipulate the variables. This becomes problematic with a tractor that is not working, because of the number of working parts involved and the possibility of more than one issue. Electrical, spark, and carb issues seem to lead the way in these issues, but even something as simple as a brake issue can be plagued by this problem, which anyone that has bought a used vehicle may be able to attest too, love those shade tree brake jobs, not.

Love the reference to Occam's razor!

I never realized how much people say always and never, or try to point to one cause for dereliction until studying empirical methods and then scientific study steered me straight. This is so prevalent that it is the basis of a large percentage of our economy. people buying things that they believe are broken.

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