harvesttime16 45 #26 Posted January 4, 2016 hey guys, thanks for the input. Getting ready to restore. Beings there is a 8hp Kohler, how about calling it a 802? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedRanger 1,470 #27 Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) I recently bought a 702 that I'm transplanting an 8hp into. I've named it 852. 802 would also work since WH didn't use the x5x until 1963. Then again, the Kohler 8HP wasn't introduced until 1963 either. I just thought that 852 looks and sounds better than 802. On another note....I might be able to explain your extended hood. The 8HP uses a wider air filter than the 7HP does and the hood will not fit with the 8hp filter. They might have extended the hood instead of installing a 7HP filter. The 4-7HP air filter is more narrow by almost an inch. Edited January 4, 2016 by RedRanger 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harvesttime16 45 #28 Posted January 5, 2016 852 sounds good, but I got this from the original owner and he bought it at the very beginning of 63 with the 8 HP Kohler and the serial is 62-9138, So I'm thinking of staying with the 802, but also another way to go. Gonna knickname it Gator, because of the extended hood. why the 655 belt gaurd is on it, he couldn't remember. Also the mower deck is stainless. Yours is gonna look cool with the Duallies!! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 61,686 #29 Posted January 5, 2016 19 hours ago, RedRanger said: WH didn't use the x5x until 1963. Really? What about the 550 ( 5 HP - Electric Start - 1960 ) and 551 ( 5 HP- Electric Start- 1961 ) 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 52,676 #30 Posted January 5, 2016 I'm thinkin the PO worked in a fab shop where he had access to the stuff to make the deck clip. Can you imagine an deck that would never rust?.....make mine a 60 incher! Also the job he did on the hood had to be a pro welder. Personally I wouldn't put a drop of paint on unless necessary. ..way too much character the way it is, but then again I've been brainwashed by others here. Certainly a one of a kind and very cool horse. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedRanger 1,470 #31 Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, 953 nut said: Really? What about the 550 ( 5 HP - Electric Start - 1960 ) and 551 ( 5 HP- Electric Start- 1961 ) What was I thinking? You would be correct. I was considering only the larger 7 and 8 HP tractors. I guess they did use the x5x series earlier. Why was the 702 not a 752 then???? Why did they wait until '63 to roll out the 753 and 853? Edited January 5, 2016 by RedRanger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 61,686 #32 Posted January 5, 2016 7 hours ago, RedRanger said: Why was the 702 not a 752 then???? That and other numbering system questions will have to be asked of the Ponds when we see them in Haven. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 67,729 #33 Posted January 5, 2016 On 1/4/2016 at 0:00 AM, RedRanger said: On another note....I might be able to explain your extended hood. The 8HP uses a wider air filter than the 7HP does and the hood will not fit with the 8hp filter. They might have extended the hood instead of installing a 7HP filter. The 4-7HP air filter is more narrow by almost an inch. Thanks for the tip RedRanger about the 7 horse filter! My 8 horse is just crunched to clear the hood of my 502, I guess when I replace it in the spring I'll look for a 7 horse instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 52,676 #34 Posted January 5, 2016 5 hours ago, 953 nut said: asked of the Ponds when we see them in Haven. You will have to text me the answers to those questions....I might be goin the other way!! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedRanger 1,470 #35 Posted January 5, 2016 20 minutes ago, pullstart said: Thanks for the tip RedRanger about the 7 horse filter! My 8 horse is just crunched to clear the hood of my 502, I guess when I replace it in the spring I'll look for a 7 horse instead. I just learned this last week installing the 8HP in the 702. With the 8HP filter element installed, I cannot get the hood on. I'm able to use the 8HP filter cover by installing a narrow 4-7HP filter element inside. Diameter of both paper elements is the same, the 7Hp is just more narrow allowing the cover to not stick out as far. I wouldn't try this on any larger engine, but I can't imagine that the air flow is that much different in 1HP. They're both basically the same engine and carb. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harvesttime16 45 #36 Posted January 6, 2016 so what do you guys think what happened with my 702 (with the 8hp engine from the factory) Should I just label it with the 702 decals and called it a one of a kind? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 61,686 #37 Posted January 6, 2016 12 minutes ago, harvesttime16 said: 702 (with the 8hp engine Ask Terry,(Redyourhorse) he will make up a custom order with a 802 badge if you want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harvesttime16 45 #38 Posted January 6, 2016 that's what I was thinking, think on it til Spring. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedRanger 1,470 #39 Posted January 6, 2016 2 hours ago, harvesttime16 said: so what do you guys think what happened with my 702 (with the 8hp engine from the factory) Should I just label it with the 702 decals and called it a one of a kind? Considering the custom extended hood and the stainless custom deck, I just find it hard to believe the tractor came factory with a 8HP. Not saying you're a liar, but I believe the info they've passed on to you is not fully accurate. I'd bet there is a story behind the engine as well. Why would they extend the hood if everything fit from the factory? Are you sure it's an 8HP? Or does the tin label just say it's a 8hp? Could it be a 7Hp with a later tin installed? Could it be the 7HP went bad and someone upgraded to the 8HP at some point? I know my grandfather went through 2 Kohlers within 10 years on his Economy. Back in the day they just bolted a newer one on. If the 7HP went bad and the bigger better 8HP was now available, I surely wouldn't go back to the smaller engine. Just saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 52,676 #40 Posted January 6, 2016 Let me ask you this Harvest, does the battery box & associated wiring look factory or something a (very) good tractor guy could have put it all on when he put (possible we think) 8hp on? If the electric hardware is factory (or even if not) maybe you should consider calling it an 852? Very one of a kind there. I think Red is on to something here where the 7hp went kaput and the (very if he built his own deck & modded the hod like that) good tractor guy got his hands on the 8hp figured it woud be neat to have electric start? Either way I still like your horse and it conjures up alot of different and interesting thoughts of one could have been done to it in it's past. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 12,167 #41 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) I agree, that motor was swapped out. The first 8hp was actually in 1964. 702's were one of the several model that didn't follow the model number scheme. It was electric start so the electrical stuff would have been on it already. I think the upgrade is a good thing. I can't say I'm fond of the hood but the guy did do a nice job. Edited January 6, 2016 by Racinbob 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harvesttime16 45 #42 Posted January 7, 2016 All good suggestions, I'm thinking I'll let it 702 and make it a good discussion piece. Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. Hope to see everyone at the WH weekend in Arendtsville,PA. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 52,676 #43 Posted January 7, 2016 Bring that tractor!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harvesttime16 45 #44 Posted January 7, 2016 I plan on it, It will be restored or just let as it is for this year.Also bringing the one I'm working on for my son. pick attached. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
702854boy 155 #45 Posted Thursday at 12:01 PM On 1/4/2016 at 7:59 PM, 953 nut said: Really? What about the 550 ( 5 HP - Electric Start - 1960 ) and 551 ( 5 HP- Electric Start- 1961 ) The 550 and 551 had a 5.5 horsepower engine which explains the 55x 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 61,686 #46 Posted Thursday at 12:12 PM 9 minutes ago, 702854boy said: The 550 and 551 had a 5.5 horsepower engine which explains the 55x Nice try Wheel Horse by the numbers Many times, we get an inquiry about the age of a Wheel Horse or if it is a “One Year” or “Special production” tractor. For tractors from 1961 to 1967 there is a numbering system that is rather helpful. For this exercised we will use a 654 The three-digit number tells you a few things about the size and age of the tractor. First digit (or two if it is a four-digit number) tells the Horse Power. So you have a six HP engine 6 Second digit is a bit of a catchall, 0 is a pull start with a three-speed transaxle, 3 was only used a couple times and it was a different engine manufacturer than the same tractor with a 5 center digit, 5 is an electric start with a three-speed transaxle, 6 is a six-speed transaxle which were all electric start, 7 is a hydrostatic transmission which were all electric start. So in this case you have an electric start with a three-speed transaxle 5 The last digit tells the year of manufacture during the '60s; 3 is 1963, 4 is 1964 and so on. So you have a 1964 4 Since the last number changed each year that this system was used, they are all one year only and in my opinion, they are all special. If it were a 633 it would be the same tractor as a 653 with a 7 HP Kohler pull start engine rather than the standard electric start 6 HP Tecumseh engine. Following the numbering system you would expect it to be a 703 but they decided to break their own rule! Go figure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 15,370 #47 Posted Thursday at 02:25 PM On 1/4/2016 at 7:59 PM, 953 nut said: Really? What about the 550 ( 5 HP - Electric Start - 1960 ) and 551 ( 5 HP- Electric Start- 1961 ) Always wondered why the 701 was introduced the same year as the 401 and 551. Heck they even all three were in the same manual together! I guess 701 sounds better? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 61,686 #48 Posted Thursday at 02:50 PM 10 minutes ago, kpinnc said: I guess 701 sounds better? 701 had a seven HP Electric-start Kohler K-161 with a Starter-Generator so it should have been a 751 but the Ponds broke their own numbering rule early on. They continued the rule breaking in 1962 with the 702 and then went completely off the rails in 1963 when a 603 with a Kohler seven HP pull start engine became a 633 rather than a 703. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I need to take a nap now, I just fried my brain. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8ntruck 8,100 #49 Posted Thursday at 03:43 PM Any chance that this was some sort of a prototype or development machine from the factory? The Ponds were thrifty - maybe a 'special' was shipped out to a dealer to get a little bit of financial return after the test program was complete. Full size demonstrator tractors ended up on farms when the sales programs were over. I've seen a prototype Buick GS that somehow ended up in private hands, and worked on an Olds Cutlass that escaped from the Olds engineering department and was turned into a street leagal, registered, and licensed SCCA Pro Rallye car. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 61,686 #50 Posted Thursday at 11:41 PM 7 hours ago, 8ntruck said: Any chance that this was some sort of a prototype or development machine from the factory? The Ponds were thrifty - maybe a 'special' was shipped out to a dealer to get a little bit of financial return after the test program was complete. Full size demonstrator tractors ended up on farms when the sales programs were over. I've seen a prototype Buick GS that somehow ended up in private hands, and worked on an Olds Cutlass that escaped from the Olds engineering department and was turned into a street leagal, registered, and licensed SCCA Pro Rallye car. Feel free to create your own version of Wheel Horse history, none of us can prove or disprove it and if it is posted frequently enough AI will make it gospel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites