Toro 416-8 engine swap to A kohler or some thing else?

[mikekot3 92]

Hello all,
I have a Toro 416 also with a ONAN p216 16 hp engine. It is running really bad and uses a lot of oil and has no power anymore. I tried cleaning the carburetor with sea foam. The breather hose in the air cleaner is showing lots of blow by and the engine is burning approximately one quart an hour.
I was thinking of repowering to a Kohler engine which according to Toro parts information was an optional engine. Has anyone done this swap from an ONAN P216 engine to a
KOHLER 12-20 horse power model? Could you tell me what engine model of Kohler you have in it? Was it a factory installed engine with 12 hp that was used?  What specific engine model did you choose and what modifications were required?
Please advise,
mike

[boovuc 1,090]

Hi Mike,

There is no drop in and go engine other than the Onan P216, P218 and P220's that were designed to fit the Onan Powered tractors.
Early 416's were powered by a Kohler single cyl 16 HP motor but you would need to rewire the tractor to make it work. There are 10, 12 and 14 horse Kohlers that would bolt right on that tractor of yours
Any Kohler K series, KT series and Kohler Magnum will work that have been in Wheelhorse tractors but you need to rewire the harness that is currently on your tractor. It is specific to the Onan engine that is on it.
If you can find a donor Wheelhorse tractor with a Kohler engine that has a 15 amp charging circuit on it, it wouldn't be too difficult but you just can't drop another motor in it and hook it up to your existing harness.
The crankshaft of another engine must be at least 2.7 inches in length. It must have a diameter of inch and an eighth and have a quarter inch keyway or you can't use your Wheelhorse PTO or the stock drive pulley.
There are many Kohler engines that use a little 3 amp charging circuit where as your Onan has a 15 amp charging circuit.
You would need the muffler/bracket and all the tins, (shrouds), with another engine. You could conceivably use your existing throttle and choke controls but again, depending on the engine, yours may be too long or too short to work properly with another engine.
I'm sure swaps have been done by some members on here from their Onan to a Kohler or perhaps another brand. Small Engine Warehouse and Small Engines for less have new drop in engines for the 500 series Wheelhorse and I'm sure it would work with little effort on a 416 Onan tractor but you'll be paying out 1800 plus dollars for a new engine.

I saw your earlier post and I don't know how much money you have to put into this tractor but if your unsure what to do yourself, find a small engine guy/shop that has a reputable history close to you and ask him/her to look at the tractor and especially the carburetor. There is also a crankcase breather element under the carb assembly that will need cleaned out. You may have bad valve seals and even a hammered valve seat in that engine but for a little money, a good shop can look at it and tell you pretty quickly if it's a carb issue and filthy crankcase breather assembly issue or if there is an internal problem. The glowing muffler is a lean mixture of fuel. That muffler isn't glowing because of too much fuel.
Also check your oil level and make sure it isn't over filled and also make sure it doesn't have a gasoline smell to it. On the Onan's, you pull the stick out and whip it off and put it back in all the way including turning it snug then pull it out and read the stick. Some folks don't screw it in and overfill the crankcase.

I hope this long-winded post helps some! 

 

[mikekot3 92]

Hello Boovuc,
I appreciate the help you given me regarding my tractor. What is the Model of Kohler engine that were in early 416 tractors? When I looked at the parts information
from Toro they listed a 12hp available also. I have used some seafoam in the carburetor and now the muffler does not glow any more so your presumption
about running lean seems correct.  I am an experienced vehicle mechanic and have done major engine work on car and light trucks. I just need some direction
on my tractor. If needed I have my older 1974 Wheel horse C-120manual transmission which has a Kohler k301 engine 12 hp for parts to do a swap.
I did know about wiping off the dipstick and getting the actual level of oil in it.
Regarding the breather element under the air cleaner is that an element that you clean and reuse or just replace it? Currently the breather hose into the air cleaner
is giving a lot of blow by and the engine is burning a lot of oil at about 1/2 to 1 quart and hour.
It has a small leak just above the starter that I need to investigate further also.
I do not mind fixing my nan if parts are available but thus far it seems hard to come by. What vendors would you suggest I use for replacement parts?
 

[boovuc 1,090]

Hey Mike!
If you search the engine forum for "Onan, Carb Cleaning", you will find a thread where you may not need to remove the intake/carb and soak it. There is a thread on here that describes taking just the top of the carburetor off and blowing out the orifices, cleaning up the float, etc. It works for many without tearing it all off.
The crankcase breather is just a small valve and some reusable packing that you can clean in solvent and re-install. Check the little flapper valve in the unit for proper closing/opening.
As was said, there is a good chance the valves need adjusting and if your going to need to do that, you might as well take the heads off the motor and de-carbon the combustion chambers when you do the valve adjustment. A good opportunity to inspect the valve seats also.
Search "Decarbon Onan" also in this section. Also "Adjusting Valves, Onan" should trigger a hit in this section in the search box.
If your like me, you probably need the tractor for mowing duty so you could get by until the growing season is over and make it a winter project! Hopefully you guys to my North won't have the winter you had last year!

Good Luck, Mike!

[boovuc 1,090]

Mike, on replacement parts, there are many choices and parts aren't that scarce. Go to "Partstree.com", Toro, NAPA and what I do often is post any needs for parts in our 'wanted" section.
Kohler made many of the K series engines over a long period of time.

[mikekot3 92]

Hello Boovuc,
Thanks you once again for your feedback I appreciate it a lot.