Model numbers vs. years made

[linen beige 14]

Looks to me like a 3 was scratched over a 4 on that reciept

All the other "3"s have a loop at the very bottom. The figure that may be a three in the 07/07/6? date does not. It also looks to me like there are two numbers there, one atop the other.

And Henry, Glad you could stop by. Pull up a chair and stay awhile!

[Brian1045 28]

The serial number is #21533. It's also on the receipt.

[Brian1045 28]

That's what freaks me out . Even from the first day on this forum I've seen conflicting years for this tractor.

To top it off...I can't go by the receipt because it has the smudges of possibly 2 different dates on it. Just like the forums

The 4 looks like old pencil and the 3 is under it with blue ink. regaurdless, it seems even back then they had no idea what this thing was.

I know 100% that this paper was stored away since the tractor was purchased. All I can figure is my Grandmother wrote on everything she ever purchased with pencil...she must have noticed that back then and changed it from a 3 to a 4. Over time it has wore.

There shouldn't be a 3 there anyhow....cause it could possibly be a 65...

My grandparents weren't drinkers ...but obviously the salesman was.

Oh well...it's been fun throwing this out in the open.

I'll try no to lose any sleep over it...

[BPjunk 184]

Alrigthty,

Lets get back on what year the 1045 was manufactured for a moment. Only in 1964 did Wheel Horse use the small type of serial number decal, in 1965 a small metal tag was rivited to the hood stand for the serial number. <_< Also another part that was last used in the year 1964 was the cast iron spindle arm, in 1965 a stamped steel arm was welded to the spindle.

The old 1045 ..... she ain't good lookin' but she can pull.

Wild Bill in Richmond, Va.

Attached Image

[Tennessee Country Boy 0]

Hey Bill, Food For Thought. We all know that the rear half is a 1964. I think the front half is a 1965. What would you say to this: I think the hole back half was already together as an assemlly with serial # decal on it when they decided to make the 1045 in 65 with left over 64 parts. So they just added the front half assemly(I can not spell)for the 65 to it. It would have the 64 pedistal instead of the the 65. Which would make it have a 64 serial # decal on a 1965 Model and not have the metal plate. Just thinking out loud. But they do show it as a 1965 in the Wheel Horse Manuals. Do not really know anything much. Oh yes i do the serial # on my 1045 is 22494. Have a great oneeeeeeeee :banana:

[DMESS 24]

I think the real question at hand here is exactly how early in 1964 these were available. I believe we all feel pretty confident that WH intended these to be a 1965 model year machine. No argument there. What is interesting is the fact that these appear to have been built much earlier in 1964 then recognized. I could easily see a few early production 1045's being used at Indy to showoff the new hood style. Free PR. Surprising though to see that they appear to have been available to the public so early in the year. Naturally they didn't make the transition to the new hood/fender setup over night and maybe this styling change was a far bigger deal then we are aware of. The Indy pics obviously don't show a high level of detail, but the machines look to be fully decaled and have the signature rubber in place. A close inspection only reveals 3 to 5 of these so they very well could have been strictly proto machines. I recall the proto for the first Wheel-a-matic was ONE 854 converted/built with the hydro tranny. The number of 1045's shown in the Indy pics doesn't necessarily indicate a huge fleet of consumer ready production machines. Brian's sales receipt, however, would seem to indicate that they were available far earlier then the fall of the year.

Bill, where exactly did you obtain the information regarding the time period that these machines were built? I think you need to revisit that source and double check this info.

You know, the wide wheeled round hood machines in those pics are interesting too. Can't make out any belt guard decals, but they are clearly round hoods with 1045 rubber. Wonder what the story is on those machines? Wish you could see them more clearly. I wonder if the 1045's started out life as a fleet of round hood machines and were then converted over?? We know the 241 doesn't clear the old hood style, so as pictured they would appear to be "854's". I have seen some 854's with the wide Terra style rears, but I've never seen them with the wide 1045 style front rubber.

The mysteries never cease. :hide:

[Brian1045 28]

Does anyone have this Indy pic that keeps getting brought up?

I'd like to see it :D

[DMESS 24]

Does anyone have this Indy pic that keeps getting brought up?

I'd like to see it

Pg 69 of "Straight From the Horses Mouth". Pgs 80-81 of the second edition. The pictures show approx 3-5 1045's in a lineup of tractors running in the 1964 Indy 2 1/2 held in conjunction with the Indy 500.

The race is MAY of each year, but we have been told these 1045's weren't produced until August of 1964. Your receipt and these pics tend to reveal that they were around/available much earlier.

An interesting mystery! :hide:

[oldandred 15]

Hummmmmm all this over a year Im just goning to give my 1045 away to keep from getting in the middle of this Now lets go over the 754

[DMESS 24]

Hummmmmm all this over a year Im just goning to give my 1045 away to keep from getting in the middle of this Now lets go over the 754

Just trying to add to a thus far interesting, intelligent discussion. I find the how's and why's of the early model equipment quite facinating. Lets face it, we have the general history mapped out for us in a nice little book, but there is a plethora of intricate details invloving the actual tractors that tend to be left blank. The variations in models, attachments and even variations within the same model make this stuff quite fun to collect and investigate. Given the fact that specific info on many of the early tractors IS difficult to obtain, we are left to sort out the clues and sometimes make our own hypotheses. When we arrive upon contradicting info a flag pops up and makes you a little. Sort of like one of those kids mystery books, but for grown men who play with tractors.

This is good in depth tractor conversation and thats why I'm here.

Oh, and given the additional info that has turned up on the 754's I can't say I'm ready to let that one rest either.

The truth is, engineering changes and product decisions were made on an ongoing basis and this type of info is the REAL meat and potatoes stuff that I would love to hear about. Each model and variation was decided upon, built for a reason and at a specific time etc. Maybe I'm all alone in finding this stuff interesting. :omg:

[CasualObserver 3,406]

Nope Dustin, you're not alone, and I have been following this thread closely for that reason as well. Collecting means different things to different folks. Yes, to some the little menial differences are insignificant and not worthy of time or discussion. I however agree with you that the minute details and the history-mystery of some things is what makes collecting interesting to me, as well as exciting and fun to learn about. :hide:

[BPjunk 184]

I will place a phone call to a direct source to see what new information might come up. I have always gone by what I was told by Toro/Wheel Horse on the 1045 BUT this receipt with a DATE ...... has me wondering.

What I would like to do is get a list of serial numbers of the known model 1045's to see if there might be more then the originaly thought 1,100 produced. Now so far from the three serial numbers posted in this thread from Henry, Brian and myself there not yet a indication of more being built ......... BUT. <_< <_< <_<

Wild Bill in Richmond, Va.

[DMESS 24]

I will place a phone call to a direct source to see what new information might come up. I have always gone by what I was told by Toro/Wheel Horse on the 1045 BUT this receipt with a DATE ...... has me wondering.

What I would like to do is get a list of serial numbers of the known model 1045's to see if there might be more then the originaly thought 1,100 produced. Now so far from the three serial numbers posted in this thread from Henry, Brian and myself there not yet a indication of more being built ......... BUT. <_< <_< <_<

Wild Bill in Richmond, Va.

NOW your talking my language Mr Pearson! I'll get you the serial number off of ours tomorrow when I can see the tractor better.

Tell your source to respond to my email about the 1046 as well. LOL

It certainly would be interesting to know how early these 1045's were available to the public. Given the info you were supplied with and the info we've gathered from Brians sales receipt as well as the April Indy showing something seems off a bit. We need to keep 'em honest right? :D

[Michael Bullington 5]

hey this is good stuff,,,

Where is the thread on the 754 I would love to read it....I cant get it to pull up in the search field :hide:

[linen beige 14]

Only in 1964 did Wheel Horse use the small type of serial number decal, in 1965 a small metal tag was rivited to the hood stand for the serial number. <_< Also another part that was last used in the year 1964 was the cast iron spindle arm, in 1965 a stamped steel arm was welded to the spindle.

Not meaning to muddy things, just pointing out one known exception to this rule. The 1054A used cast spindle arms and had a decal for the serial number, no metal tag. And it was a 1965 model. There could easily have been other exceptions.

And it may interest some to know that the Ford Mustang in those Indy pics is what most call a 1964 1/2. (Front fender top crease runs out onto headlight door, chrome door lock knobs.). Ford called it a 1965 and they had 1965 V.I.N.s. That's how Ford was able to claim one million sold in it's first production year, which was actually 18 months long.

Toro calls the 1045 a 1964 model. Mike's book calls it a 1965. This receipt suggests strongly that the 1045 was on the market earlier than thought. The Indy pics have led some to suggest that it existed earlier than thought. BUT is there anything in the Indy pics to say the tractors in those pics were 1045s other than the hoods and tires? What engine was in them? Could they have been 854s fitted with prototype square hoods to guage public reaction? :hide:

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,366]

Here's the link on the 754 thread:

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=3511

Boy, I had to dig way back for that one. :hide:

[jusjeepn 59]

I have a 1045 but no serial #. I can only assume it had the decal tag! With the dacal being placed directly under the gas tank could have contributed to its demise. Was the metal tag located in the same place? I have located another 1045 that I'm trying to acquire, but have not seen it close up. Saw it sitting on a guys front porch all disassembled and recognized the hood. He hasn't decided how much he wants for "pappy's old tractor". I think many more of these were produced than what was published. Consider this, How many do we know of?

1) Bell's

2)Brian's

3) Old and Red's

4) Bill's

5) Kelly's

6) Dustin's

7) Zeig had one he just sold

8)I have one

9) and trying to buy another

10) one just sold at the castleman auction

And I have pics of at least 6 different tractors known to still survive! For a tractor that is 43/44 years old and only 1,100 ever made... Sounds like a whole lot of these have survived quite well or there were a lot more made than what is in print! I'm going to go to a dealer friend of mine today. His father owned this dealer through all the sixty's. I'll see if I can find out anything

GREAT THREAD!!!!!!!! :horseplay: :banana: :D

[DMESS 24]

Toro calls the 1045 a 1964 model. Mike's book calls it a 1965. This receipt suggests strongly that the 1045 was on the market earlier than thought. The Indy pics have led some to suggest that it existed earlier than thought. BUT is there anything in the Indy pics to say the tractors in those pics were 1045s other than the hoods and tires? What engine was in them? Could they have been 854s fitted with prototype square hoods to guage public reaction?

[Kelly 1,028]

I'm real interested in this topic, I have 2 1045's I know of 3 more that are owned by non members of RS, and last I knew Tickster had one, One of mine the tag is missing, only the glue is left behind the other has been brush painted over, I have not tried to clean it yet, need to be very careful, and you can't just stick a square hood dash and hood on the stand, it's diff. the rear part of the dash tower is round hood, the upright part is square hood, they had to make the dash tower just for these tractors, I'm not sure when or why they were built, but I know they just didn't throw a bunch of spare parts together to make them, many are only used on that tractor, and a few carried over to the 1055, ie. belt guard, motor set up, frame, but the 1045' used the 64 steering set up, I personally think this is one of the coolest tractors I own, I hope to build one nice one out of the 2 that I have, then sell off what is left of the other, to help save another one.

[bell 11]

Here is my serial number decal....

I'm with kelly.... this is one COOL machine!

I now have all of the parts I need.... I just need to get the "honey-do" list done, so I can get busy on it... :D

[Rollerman 290]

and last I knew Tickster had one

Kelly I still have mine & possibly more rare than others....it's a hoodless model.

Just kidding..had to do it.

Mine is #22018 though.

The short frame big blocks are my favorites....now if I can finish piecing together a 1075.

[CasualObserver 3,406]

Can I bring up one more mystery I'm seeing? We've discussed ad nauseam the serial number thing before, but I have to wonder... what are these 64/65 (whatever the heck they are) tractors doing with serial numbers in the 20,XXX range when 1963 models were well into the 30,XXX range? We've already said they started the numbering over somewhere in the 62-63 era with those 62-prefix decals. But this makes me wonder... Did they start the numbering over a third time?? :hide:

[Michael Bullington 5]

can someone list the big block short frame models...I would like to see which models this is :hide:

[DMESS 24]

Okay, for reference mine is #21872.

The BB short hoods are the 1045, 1055 and 1075.

Jason, that is an interesting issue you brought up. These particular serial decals were previously only used on attachments, so I have to wonder how that plays into things. Did they stamp them as they went, or (more likely) had a quantity of them made and just used them in number order? IF this is the case, did we hit late 63, early 64 and just decide......"Lets use up these serial decals on some tractors as well." This would keep in line with the waste not want not, lean manufacturing philosophy they seemed to utilize. Now, the 604, 654 and 704 used these little decals also, but the 754/854/1054 continued to use the large chrome serial/shift pattern decal. We would need to start to compile a list of 604, 654,704 numbers and see how they compare to the 1045 numbers AS WELL AS a list of attachments with these little tags and compare those numbers too. My head is starting to spin! Does any of this make a sense or logic? :D

[DMESS 24]

Jason, you may want to break this into a new topic.

I did a "little white serial tag" inventory and came up with the following:

SOME attachments (mainly what appears to be the earlier ones) used the white tags starting with A- prefix.

Later attachments that had these tags seem to have lost the A- prefix.

Here's my list of what I have with tags

WT-242 tiller A-32066

LMR-302 reel mower A-6266

ST-302 snow thrower A-2221

ST-3072 snow thrower A-10897

ST-323 snow thrower A-27183

WT-244 tiller 21078

BD-4264 dozer blade 33780

I realize this is off topic, but it may show us how they started to use up these serial tags. Lets get some 604, 654, 704 numbers and see how those stack up to the 1045 numbers we have.