522xi stopped running

[papaglide 542]

Gents, seeing that we are on an xi kick, I need help. Last fall during the last cutting of the season my 522xi just quit running while cutting. I have headlights but the engine doesn't turn over and all I hear is a faint clicking sound when I try to start her.

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,532]

Mike-

Time to unload that hunk.... lol. I will take it off your hands   Sounds to me like you may have a bad starter. Do you have a ohm meter or test light? If so, test the small wire going to the starter. When key is off you should have power from the battery cable to one post but nothing to the small wire. Turn the key to start position and you should have power to the starter on the small wire. If not then you can trace it back from there to a relay? Remember to make a good ground contact when testing.

[papaglide 542]

Thanks, Steve. I do have a test light and hopefully check it out this week. At least now I have a place to start.

[bmsgaffer 2,053]

If it quit running while cutting i dont think its the starter.

 

I dont know if these engines are magneto or coil, but it does sound like exactly what happens when your charging system quits and the battery dies...

You may just try a good battery and if that solves it check into the charging system. The headlights will work even when the battery is so deeply discharged that it cant start the engine, they will just be dimmer.

 

Bad connection will also do it like Steve was talking about.

 

At least its something else to look into.

[Austin860 82]

I would check your coil, and or your cylinoid.

[baerpath 517]

The commands also have a fuel cut off/backfire solenoid on the carb make sure the carb is grounded(some had plastic intakes) and that the red wire is hooked and has power to the carb when the switch is on. Fairly common with them

[doc724 925]

What Duane said is correct, but the backfire solenoid only prevents fuel from reaching the carb, it will not have any impact on cranking.  Good to keep this comment in mind when it will not start but cranks OK.

[Rick_in_CT 156]

Mike,

 

A couple more things to look at.  You state that it shut down while mowing.  Did you press in the PTO knob back in to shut off the deck after the engine quit?  I'm wondering if the faint clicking sound you hear is the PTO clutch engaging when you turn the key, which it might do if the PTO knob was still pulled out.  Also make sure you have the parking brake set.  It will really help in diagnosing the problem if you can determine which component is making the sound.  The PTO is where the cutting belt loops over the front of the engine, the starter is down low on the right side of the engine, and there are 3 relays on the firewall.  Each of these can make a faint clicking sound.

 

Check the fuses.  The top one is for the starter circuit (30A), second one is the alternator (25A), third one is the dash, safety interlocks, and cruise (10A), and the bottom one is the lights (10A). 

 

Do you know the condition of the battery?  If it has been sitting all winter and is low on voltage, you might still get lights but not enough to engage the starter solenoid.  Do you have a DC volt meter to check the battery with.  Across the battery terminals you want close to 12VDC.

 

When the engine quit, did it stop quickly as if it had lost spark, or did it sputter and cough?  If it quit quickly, it is possible that the connection to the seat safety switch has been lost.  Have you ever started to get off the seat with the deck running, the motor will shut right down.  If you flip the seat forward and look under it, you will see the harness going to the seat switch.  Look for any broken wires or a connector that has come unplugged.  We can go much further in diagnosing wiring and the safety system if needed, but for now look for the easy solution.  On the firewall there are three relays, check the connections to all of the relays to make sure they are tight.  Tap the relays with the handle of a screwdriver, try starting. 

 

Let us know how you make out.

 

Rick

[papaglide 542]

Thanks so much guys. I will get into this thing a little later in the week. I will be sure to post my findings. Thanks again!

This is what makes this site AWESOME!!

[papaglide 542]

Good news and bad news.

Good news:

I checked the fuses: I had a blown 15 amp fuse in the place of the 10 amp in the dash, safety, and cruise slot. I replaced it with a 15 amp one that I had on hand. ( no 10 available). She now turns over!

Bad news:

She doesn't start. Gas is getting to the carb but she just won't start. It's too cold for me to check this out any further tonight. I will investigate more tomorrow.

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,532]

Good start so far...

[Rick_in_CT 156]

Mike,

 

A little concerning that you found a blown fuse, but if it cranks at the moment we will move forward and hopefully in the process find out why the fuse blew.  I would get a 10A fuse into the circuit as soon as possible.  If we find that it blows right away, then it will help with the diagnosis.

 

Are you able to check for spark at the plugs?  If you have gas, my guess is you will find no spark, but it's worth checking for.

 

If no spark, I would check the kill relay next.  On the firewall there are three identical relays.  The kill relay K1 is the third one in towards the center of the tractor.  Remove the relay, check the connector for corrosion, broken wire, burned connection.  If all of the connections are clean, give the relay a few good taps and reinstall it and try starting.  If it starts, it was either in the connection or the switch inside the relay was stuck.

 

If it does not start, swap the center relay K2 into the K1 position, and K1 into the K2 position and try to start.  What happens?  If the starter no longer engages, then the relay that is now at K2 is no good.  The relays are part number 98-7249.

 

Check the relay exterior and see if there is an amp rating listed on them.  I no longer have a 5xi to compare to.  Since the circuit calls for a 10A fuse, and you have been operating with a 15A fuse, I want to confirm that the relay contacts can take the 15A.

 

If the relays all check out ok, then we can do some voltage testing to make sure we don't have a broken wire in the circuit.  After that its possible that the ignition module may have failed, hope not.

 

Let me know if you have any questions.

 

Rick

[Forest Road 594]

Go to Toro's website and download the 5xi shop manual and any other guides. They're free and rather well written. They make troubleshooting a breeze.

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[papaglide 542]

Thanks guys. I will check this out further when I get home from work.

[papaglide 542]

This is waay more fun than troubleshooting thru a shop manual!!

I have spark in both plugs. could it not be starting from just sitting for 5 months? Or a weak battery?

[papaglide 542]

As for the blown fuse, I checked the seat safety switch under the seat; it is by passed by a u shaped wire connecting into each side of the terminal. The wires coming out of the plastic tube from under the seat were frayed on the end and almost touching. If they touched were that have blown the fuse?

She still turns over and I did smell gas on the spark plugs.

[Rick_in_CT 156]

Mike,

 

If the jumper wire under the seat is installed in the harness coming up from the tractor, make sure that it is well insulated, and cannot short out to the tractor.  If the jumper shorts to the tractor frame (ground) it can blow the fuse.  The other end of the harness that is in the seat, if disconnected from the main harness is of no concern.

 

The spark at the plugs, is it a nice strong blue spark?  If the engine is turning over at a good rpm, then the battery should be good enough to start the engine.  If it is having trouble turning over then the battery should be charged.

 

If you have a good spark, the next thing to consider would be if the gas is bad from sitting.  You note that you smell gas on the plugs.  Disconnect the wires from the spark plugs, while cranking the engine do you see gas going into the carb throat?  If you do, then we will know that the fuel pump is working.  Do you have any starter fluid?  A spray of it into the carb then try starting to see if it fires off on the starter fluid.  If you don't have starter fluid, you could pour a very small amount of fresh gas into the carb and try starting.  Use a very small amount of gas.  You  are only trying see if it will fire.  

 

Let us know.

[papaglide 542]

Rick I want to say that it was a white spark? I was in the seat and looking down at the plug which was laying on the side panel. I think that the initial engine cut out was from a short in that jumper on the seat safety. Originally the engine just stopped when I was cutting.

I can't tell if the engine has good rpm. It sounds like normal.

I will check the gas in the carb throat first.

If that isn't it then I will check the battery and also try the starter fluid.

I hope to report back tomorrow.

[papaglide 542]

Upon further investigation. I took the hose off from the pump that goes to carb. Tried turning the engine over and didn't see any gas spurting out of the pump..nothing.

Could it be this simple? A broken fuel pump?

[Forest Road 594]

Yup. I went through the same thing s few years ago. New pump and its been good.

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[papaglide 542]

Well went to my local dealer got a fuel pump and air filter, 10% off to boot!

Installed the pump and presto!

She started right up.

My guess is that the amp blew because of the seat switch wires grounded on the frame and around the same time the fuel pump crapped out.

Today was a good day.

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,532]

Good deal. So I guess you are gonna keep it. lol

[Rick_in_CT 156]

Sounds good Mike.  Just in time for cutting season to begin. 

[papaglide 542]

She's a keeper.

[Rick_in_CT 156]

Did you put a new fuel filter in front of the new pump, if not it might be good time to replace it.  Nothing like a little 'spring cleaning'.  Even better when the cleaning involves a little gas and grease, some smoke and noise!