Cable winch on a WH

[fretscha 0]

Hello Guys,

my idea is to mount a 12V cable winch at the front of my 316-8 WH. I have found models at ebay between 50 and 150 euros. But i ask me if the on-board voltage is strong enough for this. The seller say that the maximum current consumption is circa 90 amps? Will my voltage regulator get grilled? :banghead:

[BairleaFarm 339]

It will pull its power from the battery not the regulator. As long as you have a decent battery and dont run it for long periods of time you should be fine.

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

David is correct :banghead:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,129]

It will pull its power from the battery not the regulator.

Please explain. :banghead:

[Duff 206]

Hi, fretscha!

There was a guy somewhere, I think on eBay, a while back who had fabbed up some pretty good looking mounts for winches to go on Wheel Horse tractors. As I recall they locked into the front hitch. You had to find your own winch, but it sounds like you've already got a line on one of those. I haven't seen his equipment on eBay in a while but one of the other fellows here may have a line on them?

Just a thought.....

Duff :banghead:

[BairleaFarm 339]

Please explain.

The winch pulls its power from the battery not the rectifier. Id doesnt matter under normal operations if the rectifier is putting out 1 amps or 100 amps. The only time it would matter is if you ran that winch full time all the time. Now if your battery is bad or low and you fire up the winch than yes it could affect the rectifier.

Hope that is a little bit clearer. im not very good at explaining how stuff works.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,129]

I'm not going to write a book on here, but I will say this much:

The only time a load will be drawn entirely from the battery is if the engine is not running.

[Docwheelhorse 2,561]

I'm not an electrical expert... but I think that if the engine is running and you draw 90 amps even momementarily the charging system is going to try and keep up and it is going to be at 600% of its capacity.... (15 amp system max taxed out at 90 amps...) I don't know if it will fry the regulator or stator but I don't think either will be happy with you....

Tony

[BairleaFarm 339]

.. but I think that if the engine is running and you draw 90 amps even momementarily the charging system is going to try and keep up and it is going to be at 600% of its capacity....

What about the amps he has stored in his battery? You dont even need a regulator to make the winch work. All you have to do is find the discharge curves for your battery to be sure it will keep up with the actuator for the amount of time you want to run it.

Let me make this clear. I know nothing about how stators, solid state, and so forth work. All this is based off my knowledge of automobile wiring. Which might have nothing to do with the way these systems work. I, myself, would have no problem or worried about running a winch off of a garden tractor.

Now with that being said. Couldnt you put a switch between the output of the regulator and the ignition switch? "disconnect" the regulator while using the winch.

[linen beige 14]

Guys, David's right.

I know where some of you are coming from on the overloading the charging system theory. But, having a little experience with aftermarket winches on some of the heavy trucks the PD I retired from used, most of which I wired, this winch will not even be felt by the charging system unless and until the battery runs down to a charge point below the level required of the winch. At that time though, BIZZZZTTT......no more charging system unless it's protected. Putting a switch between the regulator output and the battery would work, and you could use a cut out relay that opened the charging circuit when the winch was activated, but an easier answer would be a fuse rated at, or just below, the charging system's max output (Which is what most manufacturers suggest and that's what I always did. I also don't think I ever had to replace one of the fuses.).

Garden tractor batteries don't have a lot of storage capacity and will run down quickly. You could run it at max cap for no more than 10 seconds per minute in order to keep it charged. One answer would be to upgrade to a higher storage capacity battery. It would give more continued run time, but would also take more time to fully recharge.

A better answer I think would be a mechanical winch powered from the engine pto.

[Nick 13]

I dont know how the charging systems compare but ATVs have used small 12v winches for years. Many use them to lift a front blade, wouldnt be long runs at a time but used often for plowing snow.

The Superwinch 2,000 pound winch draws 25 amps at 500 pounds of line pull and 50 at 1,000 pounds.

Superwich link 2000 pound

[fretscha 0]

A PTO powered Winch would be a dream, but i dont think that i can find one in germany. What you think about my idea:

I think to build a complete attachment that is mountable at the Attach-a-matic system. I weld a frame that can be fixed at the middle and front bolting system. At the front of this frame there is the winch. At the middle of the frame there is a car generator that can be driven by the pto that just produce voltage for the winch. Can that work? Or may i have problems with the mass from the WH frame?

[mcwh1950 2]

Hi, fretscha!

There was a guy somewhere, I think on eBay, a while back who had fabbed up some pretty good looking mounts for winches to go on Wheel Horse tractors. As I recall they locked into the front hitch. You had to find your own winch, but it sounds like you've already got a line on one of those. I haven't seen his equipment on eBay in a while but one of the other fellows here may have a line on them?

Just a thought.....

Duff

i think this is the guy you are talking about

http://cgi.ebay.com/wheel-horse-wheelhorse...1QQcmdZViewItem

[Duff 206]

i think this is the guy you are talking about

http://cgi.ebay.com/wheel-horse-wheelhorse...1QQcmdZViewItem

Yup - that's the one!

Thanks!

Duff :banghead:

[linen beige 14]

Running an auto generator, or more commonly found alternator would work in theory IF it produces enough amps. But it would require it's own regulator, rectifier, etc. A larger battery would be much simpler if you want to stick with the electric winch. If you are going to the trouble of mounting another generator/alternator that same effort could be used to fab up a pulley system to a mechanical winch.

[Teddy da Bear 11]

Fretscha, do you have a use for the winch? Or do you just want one?

And I cannot imagine the wheel horse holding it's ground against anything heavier than itself. The tractor would be dragged across the ground unless you find a way to anchor it in place. Maybe a "grappling hook" out the back end??? :banghead:

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,345]

And I cannot imagine the wheel horse holding it's ground against anything heavier than itself. The tractor would be dragged across the ground unless you find a way to anchor it in place. Maybe a "grappling hook" out the back end???

Maybe, but consider this: http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=6038

I know it's not the same, but don't underestimate the capabilities of these little tractors. :banghead:

[fretscha 0]

Sure, i can

[Raider12 13]

I'm not going to write a book on here, but I will say this much:

The only time a load will be drawn entirely from the battery is if the engine is not running.

TT has it right! The only time this wrench would pull only from the battery will be if it is NOT running! Even on my Chevy plow truck. I run twin batteries and a 180 amp altenator to keep things moving. But even with twin batteries and the truck turned off, it will run slow! It will require more than a good battery. Im thinking if you run a wrench pulling these kind of amps will will have more ploblems with charging system than you know what to do with!

Denver

[HorseFixer 2,012]

TT has it right! The only time this wrench would pull only from the battery will be if it is NOT running! Even on my Chevy plow truck. I run twin batteries and a 180 amp altenator to keep things moving. But even with twin batteries and the truck turned off, it will run slow! It will require more than a good battery. Im thinking if you run a wrench pulling these kind of amps will will have more ploblems with charging system than you know what to do with!

Denver

WoW 90 amps? I think I would select a more suitable WINCH for the application for starters. And possibly as Denver stated a second battery and and a battery Isolator would be in order. Like TT stated I would definatley turn the engine off! and I think maybe put in a solenoid in-line with a switch to keep the charging system out of the equation! When the winch fires up it doesn't give a rip where it gets the amperage from! Herein lies the problem!

Cheers Duke

[linen beige 14]

Time for a bit of clarification. Both David and TT are right. But they are saying slightly different things.

A charging system capable of only 15 amps hooked to a battery with a storage capacity of say, 300 amps, running a load of 90 amps will work without taxing the charging system beyond it's capacity of 15 amps until the battery's charge falls to a level below that which allows it to supply 75 amps. At that point the charging system will begin to be taxed beyond it's capacity and if the load remains the charging system will overheat and fail at it's electrically weakest point. (Sorry for the long sentences.) If that weakest point is a fuse or circuit breaker rated at or below the maximum capacity of the charging system, then the fuse will blow/ breaker will trip and no real damage will be done. That is why I said that this system will work, but you will have to spend so much time waiting for the battery to recharge you will be better off going with a mechanical or hydro winch.

What TT said about the charging system supplying it's full capacity is true. But, like David said, as long as the battery has enough charge to supply the remaining load, this won't hurt the charging system. When I first went to work on the P.D. we had a '73 Ford 1 ton chassis with our comand post built onto the back. it was sometimes used by our Emergency Responce (S.W.A.T.) Unit. It had a 12,000 lb winch on it that pulled well over 100 amps at full load. The truck only had a 65 amp alternator on it, and a 900 amp hour battery. It never hurt the charging system, but if the team used it for more than a minute or so at a time it would run down the battery and trip the breaker. This got to be a bit of a hassle when they needed it for repeated use during practices, so we finally equiped the truck with a 240 volt, 8 Kw standby generator and powered the winch from a transformer.

And now to another point I noticed but failed to address. :wtf: do you need with a winch that draws so much current? You might want to look for another brand of winch that doesn't draw so much current to do the same amount of work. 90 amps sounds like way too much for such a low pull rate. I recall installing one on a baricade truck that drew 60 amps . I think it was rated at 8000 lbs.

I know that a 500 pound Wheel Horse mired in mud can take a lot more than 500 lbs of force to free it up, but you could do it with a much smaller capacity winch using pulley blocks to double your mechanical advantage. Think lever! A winch with it's cable run out to the load, around a pulley, and back to the winch will pull twice it's rated load.

[jerrell 1]

:banghead: don't know what you want with a big winch, but just saw a 2500 lb pull on habor freight for less than a hundred dollars, double the pull with a block and tackle, but your horse wouldnot stand the pressure, either pull you to what ever you got it hook to or pull you apart....

[WheelHorse_of_course 99]

What TT said about the charging system supplying it's full capacity is true. But, like David said, as long as the battery has enough charge to supply the remaining load, this won't hurt the charging system. When I first went to work on the P.D. we had a '73 Ford 1 ton chassis with our comand post built onto the back. it was sometimes used by our Emergency Responce (S.W.A.T.) Unit. It had a 12,000 lb winch on it that pulled well over 100 amps at full load. The truck only had a 65 amp alternator on it, and a 900 amp hour battery. It never hurt the charging system, but if the team used it for more than a minute or so at a time it would run down the battery and trip the breaker. This got to be a bit of a hassle when they needed it for repeated use during practices, so we finally equiped the truck with a 240 volt, 8 Kw standby generator and powered the winch from a transformer.

David is correct.

Charging systems have both a voltage regulator and a current regulator. The current regulator means that if the battery is dead (or run down and the winch is winching) the current is limited to the maximum *rated current* for the system.

If this were not the case, placing a dead battery (or a battery that was no longer any good) in the system would destroy the charging system.

An electronic regulator more than likely *also* has thermal protection.

At least with the Kohler regulators the worst thing you can do is run it with *no load* (e.g with the battery disconnected).

According to the book "Damage will not occur if a dead or completely discharged battery or even a shorted battery is connected".

:thumbs:

[BairleaFarm 339]

At least with the Kohler regulators the worst thing you can do is run it with *no load* (e.g with the battery disconnected).

Thats good to know. I didnt know that.