wheel horse E141

[WHEEL HORSE 312-8 52]

Can a anyone tell me anything about the E141 I know its electric witch seems kinda cool idk y lol

[zieg72 209]

All I've heard is the batteries are expensive.  I'd like to know if anyone has compared running one versus a gas model to determine the actual cost of ownership

[WHEEL HORSE 312-8 52]

I want one cause I've never seen one plus that's prob the rarest wheel horse there is

[zieg72 209]

whfan74 had one, you may want to get his input.  I know I saw another one sitting at his meet and greet 10 days ago.

[AJ_Thanatos 516]

 there was one at Scott's M&G. I would start with him. 

[546cowboy 302]

You know I really don't see why anyone would want one myself. This whole electric power thing is a bunch of BS. I can just see you now trying to push it back to the shop after the batteries die. It gets me every time I see that Nisson ad on TV. You know the one where a guy says they have driven them 800 million miles without any gasoline. Just how many times does 40 go into 800 million?

 

Until there  is some giant leap in battery technoligy it is not feasable to mass produce and drive total electric cars or mowers. It is 6 miles from my house to the grocery store, it is 26 miles to the nearest Super Walmart  so you see what I mean. Before I got back from that Walmart the batteries would be dead and I really don't believe that mower would mow my 4 acres on one charge.

 

OK now all you guys with electric golf carts don't get you panties in a knot and tell me how long yours will go on a charge. Now think of this, you are not going 55 to 65 mph for the 52 miles to Walmart and back and you are not running a mower deck for a few hours either.

 

I've just about had all this 'green' BS from all these " the sky is falling" as*&^%$# I can stand. Why Wheel Horse ever got involved in that is just beyond me and look at when they did it.

 

If the really want to go green they need to do the Hydrogen thing. You could have a little hydrogen generator at your house for little cost and you would actually be able to fill your own vehicle up at home and go anywhere you wanted. The reasons that will never happen are simple.

 

1. The state, local and federal government wouldn't get their cut.

2. The state ,local and federal legislators would not get their ''kick backs" from the lobbiests from the oil companies.

3. It would be an industry they couldn't have total control over

4. The stock market and comodities traders would loose their perks.

5. There would be outcries from all those FBI, Bureau of Tabacco & Firearms, Homeland Security and other agencies about a redily avaiable terrorist weapon that is not regulated.

 

I did see something at least 6 months ago about some revolutionary new energy power source that was completely self contained and very affordable. Like everything else on the news these days, I wasn't paying close attention at the time and thought I would hear more about it. Well excuse me but there was never another word about that. Wonder how much the oil companies paid to shut that up?

 

Well I guess I have and that's a fact.

Edited October 16, 2014 by 546cowboy

[whfan74 2,071]

I did have a real nice one and have now acquired another one as a project.

They are definitely unique and not very economical which is why they faltered I am sure.

The set of batteries will run you in the neighborhood of $600. That isn't bad if you consider the cost of rebuilding a Kohler. The problem is you will go through a couple set of batteries before that old trusty Kohler will need to be rebuilt.

The tractor is rated at 14 h.p. and will mow approximately 1 acre on a charge. There is only one belt on the tractor which is the drive belt. The deck is a regular 42" rear discharge replaced with electric motors that power each blade.

The hood and fenders are fiberglass. The rear fenders are thicker and more rigid than the general plastic pans that were found on the black hooded C-series.

I regret selling my first one and jumped at the chance to grab the one I currently have. Though it is a project, it is in good shape. It is fun to drive them as they sport the traditional 8 speed tranny. It is just a weird sound since we are all accustomed to the deep sound of a Kohler which in this case is replaced with a hum of the electric motor.

[WHEEL HORSE 312-8 52]

Wow its amazing how interesting a electric tractor is.Thx for info everyone hopefully one day I'll have my own e141 for now I'll stick with the 2 wheel horses I got can't wait to have a big collection

Pics

[bmsgaffer 2,053]

Let me start by saying: The E141 was not perfect. It had flaws and was well before its time.
 
Then from the perspective of an electrical engineer:
 

Until there  is some giant leap in battery technoligy it is not feasable to mass produce and drive total electric cars or mowers. It is 6 miles from my house to the grocery store, it is 26 miles to the nearest Super Walmart  so you see what I mean. Before I got back from that Walmart the batteries would be dead and I really don't believe that mower would mow my 4 acres on one charge.

Tesla has used a more efficient motor design and they will go +/- 200 miles on one charge. They can be recharged to 80% in 20 minutes or less
 

If the really want to go green they need to do the Hydrogen thing. You could have a little hydrogen generator at your house for little cost and you would actually be able to fill your own vehicle up at home and go anywhere you wanted. The reasons that will never happen are simple.

Until someone can figure out how to make hydrogen more efficiently it takes far more energy to make the hydrogen than you get out of it.
 

I did see something at least 6 months ago about some revolutionary new energy power source that was completely self contained and very affordable. Like everything else on the news these days, I wasn't paying close attention at the time and thought I would hear more about it. Well excuse me but there was never another word about that. Wonder how much the oil companies paid to shut that up?

There is a TON of development happening, but until the adoption rates increase from the consumer it will take a long time to get the prices down to what a normal consumer can afford


I have always wanted to take an E series and put Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries in it, and use the AC motors and drives which are MUCH lighter and more powerful than their old DC counterparts. Yes, it would cost a small fortune, but I would be willing to bet it would go most of the day.

The lead acid batteries are very heavy and large for the amount of power they put out and the DC motors are the same. The old E series used a large resistor to change the speed output so when you went slow it was burning off a bunch of power as heat. Now they have switching controllers than can be 80-95% efficient.

There is potential, but still too costly for the average consumer. If anyone wants to fund me and do some metal work, I would love to develop the ultimate electric wheel horse with them.

[oaktown1987 82]

Kohler over electric any day I l know ge actually made the electric ones

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[546cowboy 302]

I knew someone would bring up that Tesla battery thing when I wrote the post above but do you know how many of those little batteries there are in that battery pack? To say nothing of the weight and the cost of that pack? Seems like the battery pack weighs something like 700 lbs. I understand that they are going to build a battery manufacturing plant for those batteries if they can get a tax break from some state and maybe they could do more development.

 

I really don't know anyone who can afford a $100,000 car either.

 

Since you are an electrical engineer bmfgaffer, have you heard anything about that new power source? If I remember correctly it was from some company in Silicone Valley. and would revolutionize how power is made. 

 

As far as hydrogen goes, we only know what the government and others tell us. The research on that has been controlled by the government, auto and power industries so you'll never hear anything until they lock-up all the patents so they can guarantee their future profits.  They have been working on it for about 40 years or more and have trucks, buses and commercial building tests going now.

 

I guess I shouldn't have started this discussion here with this rely though , so____________________--

[Ken B 3,189]

My boss can afford one and she does have a $100,000 Tesla. One of the things you get when you buy one is DESTINATION ANXIETY and she without a doubt has it. Too spend that kind of money and only get a 250 mile range ain't squat IMO. It is a good thing she kept her Benz and Beemer for the longer trips. I know there have been a few times when she had to make an unexpected trip and there is always the worry of NOT ENOUGH CHARGE... A good looking woman with a dead car on the side of the road these days ain't good. For us guys we don't worry so much about that but WOMAN DO. I will admit an electric Wheel Horse to have as a novelty item would be cool. I do wonder how many ran out of charge out in the middle of someone's yard? 

[Molon_Labe 731]

I knew someone would bring up that Tesla battery thing when I wrote the post above but do you know how many of those little batteries there are in that battery pack? To say nothing of the weight and the cost of that pack? Seems like the battery pack weighs something like 700 lbs. I understand that they are going to build a battery manufacturing plant for those batteries if they can get a tax break from some state and maybe they could do more development.

 

I really don't know anyone who can afford a $100,000 car either.

 

Since you are an electrical engineer bmfgaffer, have you heard anything about that new power source? If I remember correctly it was from some company in Silicone Valley. and would revolutionize how power is made. 

 

As far as hydrogen goes, we only know what the government and others tell us. The research on that has been controlled by the government, auto and power industries so you'll never hear anything until they lock-up all the patents so they can guarantee their future profits.  They have been working on it for about 40 years or more and have trucks, buses and commercial building tests going now.

 

I guess I shouldn't have started this discussion here with this rely though , so____________________--

Look up "graphene battery" pretty interesting stuff. Video http://www.kcet.org/news/rewire/science/super-fast-biodegradable-batteries-made-of-carbon.html

Edited October 16, 2014 by M_Bailey

[WHEEL HORSE 312-8 52]

Teslas have I think 3000 battierys

[wh500special 2,265]

I can't disagree that an electric car is not currently the right tool for the job of trekking back and forth to WalMart from your home 26 miles away.  But they're really not marketed or intended for people who don't live in an area where they have long distances to cover.

 

I have a 30 mile commute each way to and from work.  I could easily plug in to the building at work and obviously at home too.  An electric car could easily meet my daily needs.  So could a big-block 4wd 1-ton crew cab dually.  Neither one are ideal choices.

 

But I do have that choice.

 

Likewise, an electric tractor isn't a fit for many of us.  But for some of us - me included - it might be an ideal solution.  I have a decent sized lot in a neighborhood.   I would love the relative quiet operation and convenience of not storing gasoline in my garage.  Whether or not it makes economic sense isn't really a huge issue for me since none of these tractors make economic sense. 

 

I have a Lawn Boy push mower with a 2-stroke engine.  2 strokes are notoriously fuel inefficient, but at the speed I can push that sucker and with my reasonable physical endurance to stay on it for an hour or so, I can cut my yard several times from the can of premix I keep in the garage.  To use a tractor - and I have tried many of them on my lot - I use way more fuel.  I'd guess the cost of operation is at least a factor of 3 higher to use the tractor.  I've never pencilled the actual costs out since it isn't a significant part of my budget and time spent on the seat provides me value in ways other than monetary efficiency.

 

Wheel Horse entered the market since GE had established a foothold with - by all accounts - a great product in the 1970's.  They stuck it out with the E141 probably because other manufacturers were also selling electric equipment at the time and gas in the early 1980's was very expensive in real terms (http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/Gasoline_Inflation.asp).  Why give up market share for something that was relatively easy to execute?

 

There aren't any conspiracies holding things back.  Fuel was cheap for a long time so there wasn't an intensive effort to bring alternative fuels into the mainstream, including battery electrics.  Until it became fashionable or socially desirable to "go green" there has been no consumer demand for these things.  When the Prius and early Honda Insight hit the market in about 1997 I remember thinking it was an extremely innovative product, but you hardly saw any of them on the road.

 

I have a spreadsheet somewhere that shows I bought gas for my truck in 1998 that was only $0.69/gallon.  Consequently, I gave no thought to fuel economy beyond the fact that I would have liked to have gone further on a tank for convenience.  Until recently, it just didn't hurt the average American enough to care about anything other than power, space, and comfort.  Well, maybe perhaps machismo.

 

The Tesla is a special case.  Not only is it an electric car, but it is meant to compete in the same class as a Mercedes Benz S-Class and that ilk.  Given the technology and overall content and quality, it is a good value at a starting price of $85k.  I'm not about to buy one though since it certainly doesn't fall into the category of vehicles that fits my needs and desires.  A newer, smaller, cheaper model is on the horizon and I would seriously consider it.

 

With recent shifts in regulations and tax incentives - particularly in California - you're probably going to see your preference of Hydrogen powered vehicles become an eventual reality since that's where the market is being steered by the hand of regulation.  Hydrogen is incredibly abundant, but it seldom exists on its own.  Usually it's tied to something that doesn't want to let it go.  As in water or methane.  Getting it loose is ALWAYS energetically uphill.  The processes are getting cheaper, but thermodynamics tells us it will never be energetically favorable.  The use of hydrogen really is just a means of transferring some other form of energy (electricity, fossil fuel, etc) into something portable that we can relaibably deal with.

 

30-40 years after their debut, the electric tractors are definately a profile in obsolesence, but they were pretty good designs (the GE versions at least) in their day.  They serve a purpose, perhaps not universal, and are reportedly capable machines.  I'd love to add an E141 to my fleet.

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

[bmsgaffer 2,053]

Very well put Steve!

[WHEEL HORSE 312-8 52]

Agree Steve

[chipwitch 73]

Energy isn't free.  You can't get something for nothing.  It's the law of the universe.  Electric is cool for lots of reasons.  Trains run off of electric motors because the power transfer to the wheels is more efficient... no need for a transmission...  So, I'm all for electric in principle.  I'm no "tree hugger" but carbon fuel is certainly harmful to the environment.  Perhaps it isn't all doom and gloom for the future of mankind that some would have us believe, but it's certainly not the "this is all BS" that the other side would have us believe either.  As with anything, the truth is always somewhere between the extremes.  Carbon fuels give us just about the greatest amount of energy with the least expense.  It really is cheap.  Dirt cheap.  Yes, we can harness the energy from wind, solar, geothermal, atomic and other sources, but it all comes at a great cost.  Just about every one of them requires batteries to store the energy, atomic being an obvious exception.  I always laugh whenever people push these as being friendly for the environment... and they are in some respects, but it comes at a cost.  If everyone in the world would rely upon battery power, we would have only a few decades at best before all the water sources would be polluted with heavy metals... Recycling would only go so far...  How much energy would it require to distill all our drinking water?  I'm not saying we shouldn't pursue developing better batteries and alternate energy.  We should... definitely!  Carbon fuels are killing our planet.  Probably more correctly, overpopulation is adversely effecting the planet.

 

The idea of electric cars and a 50 mile range isn't necessarily a bad one.  It's only part of the solution.  For most of us, 50 weeks out of the year, that would suffice.  So what if we have to work around it the other two weeks.  Besides, the goal isn't to have a single electric car that runs in a vacuum.  The greater vision is that when you pull into the parking spot at Walmart, a subterranean charger beneath the asphalt quietly charges your car while you shop... same with the grocery store... and Home Depot...  and rest stops along the highways.  It isn't a bad step on the road to energy independence.  We are newly embarked on this journey.  The destination is a long ways off.  Maybe we never get there, but as they say... it's the journey not the destination that matters.

 

In my opinion, the best energy for the buck is nuclear.  Right now we rely on fission energy.  The waste is radioactive for a thousand years or so.  That is it's only downside.  It is extremely cheap and very abundant.  Currently, the big supecolliders are racing to unlock the mysteries of fusion energy.  If successful, it stands the chance of providing nearly free energy for everyone on the planet.  Best part is the radiation dissipates in a fraction of the time as fission.

 

Me?  I look forward to the day I can have a self contained fusion reactor, about the size of a pencil eraser, that will power my Wheel Horse and will outlive the Horse.  Until then, should I ever encounter someone selling an E-141, I'll gladly entertain the notion of buying it.  For those of you concerned about the battery dying before your lawn is cut, may I suggest retrofitting your E-141 with a 14 HP generator to charge the batteries... problem solved!    

 

I hope you all find that as much fun to read as I did to write!  Cheers and happy WH'ing.

[wh500special 2,265]

Chipwitch, have I got a deal for you:  http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/EB00/121GMF.oap?keyword=121gmf

 

Steve

[chipwitch 73]

Oh that is just TOO funny!!! @Steve

 

:laughing-rolling:

Wonder what they get for those?  Notice it requires 1.2 GWatts of power... at least they got that part right!