Painting noob... tips needed

[Hodge71 663]

Thats good news Bob. Next question is how much gloss can I expect? That looks like a mirror and I know I'm not a pro like you guys are, but, can I expect some gloss or should I plan on numerous coats and wet sanding and buffing til my arms fall off to achieve results like your Commando? While I mention coats...how many and how soon to recoat? I'll be painting outdoors ( go ahead and shriek in horror)...but I can hang them inside the quansite hut to dry once coated. I feel like I keep bombarding you and Geno with questions but I really appreciate anything you both can do to help my learning curve a bit....

[Geno 1,928]

I never sand or buff, not even base clear.  Base clear was made not to be buffed but most do because they don't put enough on.  It's the fear of runs thing.  I do 3 light coats and a final heavy coat.  The final coat is gonna determine how much work you need to do to get a good shine and texture.  Final coat, heavy as you can get it without running it. 

 

Do you have something you can practice on first?  That would help you a lot. 

Edited September 3, 2014 by Geno

[rmaynard 14,909]

Acrylic urethane will give you a higher gloss than acrylic enamel. It is also more expensive. But if you are going for the show queen look without clear coating, that's the way to go. Acrylic enamel gives you a finish closer to what the original paint looked like, shiney but not mirror-like.

 

If you are painting outside, you will never acquire the mirror finish without sanding to get the dust nibs out, then polishing to bring back the shine. My first four paint jobs were done as follows The frame, engine, and most structual parts were painted outdoors. The show parts like hood, fenders, belt covers, etc. were painted in a friends paint booth under controlled conditions. Three medium coats and the finish was as you see it.

 

The last one that I did, the 857, was painted with acrylic enamel. All of it was done outdoors due to the fact that my paint shop buddy went out of town just as I was ready to paint the hood and stuff. So I painted all the show surfaces outdoors with three medium coats. Then I sanded the dust and bugs out with 1000, then 1500, and finally 2000 grit wet sandpaper. Then I used Maguires polishing compound to bring up the gloss.

 

As far as recoat time, there should be a data sheet available for each type of paint. The recoat times are based on weather conditions. Typically, your can lay down a coat, then another in about 5 to 10 minutes. I allow about 15 minutes between 2nd and 3rd coat. I wait at least 16 hours before sanding and polishing.

[Geno 1,928]

We should start a paint thread Bob.      Recoat time will depend on temperature, the thinner temperature rating, and humidity.  Good way to tell is if you have anything near what your painting that is taped up, you  can touch your finger to the tape, when the tape is sticky but there is no paint on your finger you can put on another coat.  

[Hodge71 663]

You guys are amazing!....Im sure I will have more questions throughout the day as they come to mind!!

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Hodge,

 

I'm not sure what brand/ type material you will finally choose but one item comes to mind at this time of the season when temperatures can vary from 60's to 90's. Discuss the "speed" of your catalyst or reducer with your supplier. They will ask you what ambient temperature you intend to spray at and supply you proper additives for a temperature range. Try to stay within 10 degrees F of your additives rating.

 

Youtube is your friend here as you learn spray gun techniques. Bring up a few videos on pattern adjustment - speed of application, maintaining a "wet edge" (very very different than spray can technique) and the importance of PATIENCE between coats.

 

READ, UNDERSTAND,AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS SUPPLIED BY THE MANUFACTUER. Instructions can be quite detailed and should be read before beginning.

 

STAY WITHING THE MANUFACTUERS "FAMILY" OF ADDITIVES / COMPONENTS FOR THE LINE OF PAINT YOU CHOOSE. Don' t use some thinner .reducer, hardener left over in granpa's barn from the 1980's to save a few dollars. I have always found my time spent to be the most costly factor in a successful paint job.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Save Old Iron

[rmaynard 14,909]

When it comes to painting, there are lots of opinions on what's best, and "how-to's", but nothing beats a post with pictures.

 

There are some members on here who paint for a living, while others work in body shops and are surrounded by painting professionals. Still others are not painters or body men by trade, but still do a fantastic job. I am amazed at some of the work that I have seen on this forum.

 

But the thing that helped me the most is the guy that puts his money where his mouth is. In other words, if you are going to tell someone how to paint, back it up with actual pictures of your tractors that you have painted. That way, the person that is looking for advice can see that what you are telling them actually works. It's easy to go out on the internet and "cut and paste" someone elses advice, but that's not the same as actual experience.

 

Some examples of what I am talking about follow:

 

Kelly - works for a body shop, has posted much advice and pictures. Here is one example

 

 

Suburban 550 -  Ray has worked for a body shop and has personally given me painting advice. Here's one of his.

 

 

buckrancher - Brian isn't a body shop guy, but has always been free with advice, and does great documentation with pictures. Here is one of his.

 

 

There are many more members who's advice and pictures could take up pages and pages, but I can't list them all. These are just a few who's advice I value because they back up what they say with proof.

 

 

[Hodge71 663]

Ok Bob... Thank you very much and you Old Iron as well. The next thing Im pondering what to do the frame in that will be ddurable. Its going to be all black as is the Onan. IS rattlecan rustoleum and option?...what about Eastwood's Chassis Black? Get a black mixed and shoot it with the gun. Just trying to figure out my options. Im going to pressure wash it and wipe it all down with wax and grease remover but dont really want to get too crazy with prep on the frame unless its really needed. Do I even need to prime it?

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Guess we would have to discuss what you mean by durable.

 

If you want a shiny trailor queen that only sees the light of day a few times per year, durability is defined by how shiny and scratch free the tractor stays. If that is your intention, look for a high UV resistant top coat or clear coat and a tarp to keep it covered 350 days a year.

 

If you wish to actually work the tractor, hook accessories to it, wrap a link chain around the axle to help pull another tractor out of the mud, then to me, durability means easy touch up of the inevitable scrapes, dents and dings the tractor will see as it earns its keep. If the cost of powder coating the frame is out of the question, POR will work. If once a year quick spot touchup seems like it will work for you, professional version black rustoleum is actually quite durable and very easy to touch up.

 

I have no experience with EASTWOOD chassis black but it sounds like it may be similar to POR.

[Hodge71 663]

 

Guess we would have to discuss what you mean by durable.

 

If you want a shiny trailor queen that only sees the light of day a few times per year, durability is defined by how shiny and scratch free the tractor stays. If that is your intention, look for a high UV resistant top coat or clear coat and a tarp to keep it covered 350 days a year.

 

If you wish to actually work the tractor, hook accessories to it, wrap a link chain around the axle to help pull another tractor out of the mud, then to me, durability means easy touch up of the inevitable scrapes, dents and dings the tractor will see as it earns its keep. If the cost of powder coating the frame is out of the question, POR will work. If once a year quick spot touchup seems like it will work for you, professional version black rustoleum is actually quite durable and very easy to touch up.

 

I have no experience with EASTWOOD chassis black but it sounds like it may be similar to POR.

As stated above this is going to be my Dads everyday tractor. Taking the place of his 1973 12 auto with 5000 hours on it. We never had to yank that with a chain and I doubt it will be an issue with this one either. I meant chip reisitance to stones etc. Eastwood chassis black is an epoxy paint and I have had great results with it for car restorations Edited September 3, 2014 by hodge71

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

I say go for it. Not much beats epoxy. As with auto frame retoration, take a rotary grinder with a light touch to all metal pieces and chamfer all sharp edges and remove welding spatter - anything that will cause the thick epoxy coating to flow out into a thin layer over sharp edges.

[Geno 1,928]

Guess we would have to discuss what you mean by durable.

 

If you want a shiny trailor queen that only sees the light of day a few times per year, durability is defined by how shiny and scratch free the tractor stays. If that is your intention, look for a high UV resistant top coat or clear coat and a tarp to keep it covered 350 days a year.

 

If you wish to actually work the tractor, hook accessories to it, wrap a link chain around the axle to help pull another tractor out of the mud, then to me, durability means easy touch up of the inevitable scrapes, dents and dings the tractor will see as it earns its keep. If the cost of powder coating the frame is out of the question, POR will work. If once a year quick spot touchup seems like it will work for you, professional version black rustoleum is actually quite durable and very easy to touch up.

 

I have no experience with EASTWOOD chassis black but it sounds like it may be similar to POR.

 

This is one of the best points in here, what is it going to be used for, especially the ease of touch up part.     

 

We have been building this Wheel Horse trailer if you've seen it on here and almost powder coated the 4' Horse head logo until I thought, what if I drag something across it (accidents happen).  Touch up would be impossible, recoating would be costly.

[Hodge71 663]

Okay guys next question for the new guy....How to paint the flat black stripe on the "grille" of the hood do I paint that first or paint the hood red first and then tape it off and paint the black stripe? I really don't want my fresh bright red paint to peel off when I pull the tape off

[Geno 1,928]

I do the black first, and use a satin finish of paint.  I do this in case something goes south, the black is a smaller area and easier to touch up.  Let it dry for a couple of days also before doing the red. 

[Hodge71 663]

Okay Geno...time is of the essence though......I may use artificial assistance in curing the black. I have a few heat lamps to speed the process by a day so I can spray black one day and all the red the next day. Weather is looking colder for next week and Im painting outdoors

[Hodge71 663]

Ok guys...buying paint today after work....how much do I need? They sell it by the quart or gallon. Qt is $57, gallon is $102. Whats the shelf life? I plan on redoing my 1974 C-160 8 speed over the winter or early spring next year and also my kids 1971Charger 12 (Ol' Rustbucket) could use a redo maybe over next summer. I've heard that once you open a urethane its only good for so long and then its  junk. I really don't want to waste $110 on paint I throw out because I didn't use it all

[rmaynard 14,909]

I have some acrylic urethane that I purchased in 2010. The opened can has been sealed since then, and it is still good. Having said that, I would not buy more than you will use on the one tractor. As long as you seal the can between coats, it will be fine. However, once mixed with the activator, you must use it within a few hours (according to the directions on the data sheet).

 

I usually purchase 2 quarts when I paint a small tractor. Acrylic urethane is typically mixed 4:1:1 and acrylic enamel is mixed 8:1:1 meaning that you will get a little more mileage out of a quart of urethane than you will with enamel.

[Hodge71 663]

Wow Bob. I never would have thought a hood and fenders could take that much paint. I guess I will be getting a gallon then

[Geno 1,928]

Bob's got it right!    

[rmaynard 14,909]

Wow Bob. I never would have thought a hood and fenders could take that much paint. I guess I will be getting a gallon then

If all you are painting is a hood and fenders, a quart should be more than enough.

[Geno 1,928]

Thanks Bob, I missed the hood and fenders only part.  

[pacer 3,159]

FWIW -- I know a lot of guys are following this, so for a comparison, I use Rustoleum (I think a lot of us do) and having done 5 horses with full tear down now, with 4 of them with decks, I find 1 quart is just about right, using a spray gun, usually having 4-5 ozs left. Course using Rustoleum you have the benefit of it being offered in rattle cans, which is awful convenient to do those small pieces that invariably pop up that get overlooked.

Edited September 18, 2014 by pacer

[Hodge71 663]

Heres the color guys!!! International Harvester Red #50...... I ended up getting 2 quarts Bob. I figured I gotta paint both sides of the hood, fender pan and footboards plus the belt guard for the right and the panel that covers the lift cylinder and brakes assembly on the left. I figure red should be flowing Sunday. They gave me a urethane primer/ surfacer so that will be flowing Saturday. They told me 2-4 coats of primer and 3 or 4 coats of red 10 minutes apart until it covers with no show through. Really nervous about orange peel. Its once and done so I gotta be sure to do it right. 

 

[Hodge71 663]

So what grit should I be wet sanding with before I paint. It was a primer/surfacer/filler and I want it smooth but not take too much off that I need to buy primer again

[Geno 1,928]

I've never used anything but 400, 600 would be ok, just don't spend much time on the corners or edges.  Wet sanding cuts pretty quick.