Raider 12 no spark issue

[oldredrider 2,547]

After looking at your pic of the switch, you have a naked post (no wire attached). That should be the post for the kill wire. Make sure the wire itself is NOT grounded during testing for spark.

[NYRedNeck 4]

After looking at your pic of the switch, you have a naked post (no wire attached). That should be the post for the kill wire. Make sure the wire itself is NOT grounded during testing for spark.

That is for the headlights and cigarette lighter which is disconnected, but all works when connected

[oldredrider 2,547]

Ok so that's an acc terminal. Forget what I said!

[NYRedNeck 4]

No luck with the Raider this weekend.  I disconnected the 3 prong and still NO spark
What next ?

Edited September 22, 2014 by NYRedNeck

[oldredrider 2,547]

Just to clarify, are you sure it is a breakerless ignition? No points? Just want to make sure since some things have been swapped on your tractor.

[NYRedNeck 4]

Yes. The only thing swapped on this raider was the engine. However this is a raider 12 engine with the corresponding spec number with a breaker less ignition as shown in the diagram I posted earlier.

[oldredrider 2,547]

Possibly you have a bad trigger or coil.

[NYRedNeck 4]

It is a 68 Raider 12 with an engine matching the spec no for the 1970 Model.  The specs show this as a breakerless system.  Wiring diagram shows everything that is on this tractor.  No solenoid.

Attached is a few photos. Hope it helps.  

Not sure if the ignition is original or replacement.  The missing connector is for the lights and cig lighter. When connected both the lights and lighter work.

Hopefully you can see the rectifier in the photo.

 

Are any of the possible problematic parts still available and what would be the most likely one to fail?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,509]

See if you recognize this Kohler manual. It has some test procedures for the coil this ignition system uses that may help

 

Garry

[NYRedNeck 4]

I reached out to the previous owner of the tractor who tried his best to get it running.  I asked him which parts he already replaced, below is he response.

 

"The coil is the only item I didn’t replace!  As far as I can tell it is good but logically it’s the only thing left.  Remember it is not like a normal coil it has a built in capacitor which measures open circuit … this make the coil appear to be broken."

The price of the replacement coil is app 200.00.

[pfrederi 17,164]

You need to check the coil per the manual and also the trigger before you try to buy parts.  I am concerned that at some point someone messing around with the ignition switch may have applied power to the M terminal which can damage the coil.

[NYRedNeck 4]

I took the coil from my running Jacobsen super Chief 1450 and put it on my WH Raider 12 Still no joy.  NO Spark

 

This is a working coil from my Jacobsen. The same coil (part # 236826-S is used on both the 14HP Jake and the 12HP WH Raider

 

The jake runs and drives and the coil produces spark when on the Jake but no spark when on the Raider.  Something must be killing my spark.  

 

Any additional hope before I seriously consider converting it to points?

Edited September 30, 2014 by NYRedNeck

[oldredrider 2,547]

Since you've replaced the coil with a known good one and still don't have spark, the next place to look is the flywheel pick-up.

You may just end up converting to battery ignition. Not difficult if you can scrounge up the parts.

[NYRedNeck 4]

Since you've replaced the coil with a known good one and still don't have spark, the next place to look is the flywheel pick-up.

You may just end up converting to battery ignition. Not difficult if you can scrounge up the parts.

Is that the trigger you mean?  Part 59 in my post earlier?  I have the old one and the PO said he replaced it with a new one.  

I never converted one to points before, what do i need?

Automotive coil

points

condensor

points cover and plunger

What else??

I may try the tests in the documentation to kill my curiosity but it is kicking my ass what is killing the spark.

Edited October 1, 2014 by NYRedNeck

[oldredrider 2,547]

You will also need a stator (preferably a 15 amp), the corresponding flywheel and the correct ignition switch. The bearing plate will hopefully have the mounting holes for the stator already there. If not, that will have to bw changed also.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,509]

Do you have a "flashlight tester" as mentioned in the above test for the trigger module? My guess it is just a self-powered test light. They usually have a single AA battery and bulb and very inexpensive. When the sharp probe is in contact with the clip on the tester wire the circuit is completed and lights the bulb. Since you have the original module it would be interesting to know it's condition.

 

This type of tester is great for statically adjusting a set of points to a timing mark.

 

If you get or have one of these testers don't forget to remove the battery when you are finished with it. They don't get used very often and the battery has likely leaked the next time you need it. Don't ask how I know.

 

Garry

[NYRedNeck 4]

Yikes !!!  It all sounds complicated.  I will first continue to try getting it running as is.  Will not have time again on it till not this weekend but next.  

[oldredrider 2,547]

After re-reading all of the posts, you will also need a solenoid, points mounting plate and some wire. NOT trying to discourage you but those are some more parts you need. It can be done!

[Howie 882]

This can be changed over to points without changing the flywheel or stator. May not be the totally correct way though. I have one here that I did when I was much younger

and probably short on money. Just got the pin, a set of points, a condenser,points cover and the correct coil. Not exactly sure what I did on the wire for the trigger, just out

of the way, may have clipped it off. . When II had it apart last year thought about changing the stator but didn't.

[Howie 882]

Did change the switch also .