3pts???

[Retired Wrencher 4,906]

     I have a 1257 that I filled the rear axel with G/Lube the manual says 3pts. but after 2pts it was over flowing thru filler hole is enough??? or should I put in 3pts. Any info would be helpful. Thanks Gary   B.................

[Catmanii 36]

Drive it around house, block or whatever and it will hold more once it get into the nooks and crannys.

[stevasaurus 22,273]

It's possible that you did not get all the old oil out.  There is a rib that runs across the middle of the trans and unless you jack up the front end enough it will hold about a pint. 

 

I would not over fill it...the lubrication is like a splash method.

[Retired Wrencher 4,906]

It's possible that you did not get all the old oil out.  There is a rib that runs across the middle of the trans and unless you jack up the front end enough it will hold about a pint. 

 

I would not over fill it...the lubrication is like a splash method.

Thanks Steve. This one is in progress I bought in NY State and it is all there I am just cleaning this one with some buff work will post when done. I can drive it around when running and see what it looks like. Hey how is the old ford running?? u just don`t see those anymore. Take care. Gary    B..

[stevasaurus 22,273]

The Ford is still running great.  It seems like my son has confiscated it though.  He borrowed it last year and never brought it back.  It is all good though, it was going to be his in the long run anyway. 

[rmaynard 14,945]

If you drained all the oil out, then 3 pints is the correct amount to put back in. You can't check it at the side. Fill it through the shifter hole with 3 pints and don't take the side plug out. If you do you will lose about 10 oz.

Edited August 11, 2014 by rmaynard

[stevasaurus 22,273]

Bob, just so you know, I have seen in the manuals where they say it should take a certain amount of oil, but fill it until it comes out the fill hole.    I'll try to find a link for that.

 

Look on page 2 of both of these links...if there is no dip stick, this is what it says...

 

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/download/1843-tractor-1966-856-om-ipl-wiring-687pdf/

 

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/download/1828-tractor-1968-commando-6-1-4631-om-ipl-wiring-314-revapdf/

[rmaynard 14,945]

There is also a picture that TT posted one time that shows an extension on the side plug to allow level checking at that location. I know that the book says one thing, but it is a little confusing. I did the experiment with my 857 by putting in 3 pints. Then I put a measuring cup under the side plug, removed it, and 10 ounces poured out. So, either the book is wrong or I am crazy.

 

I am sticking by "the book is wrong".   

 

Here is TT's picture showing and extension on the side.

 

[specialwheelhorse 174]

Hey I like that extension. Hmmm a cute little dipstick too!!!!

[stevasaurus 22,273]

Bob, if you look at the 6 speed transmission manuals, that extension is from the factory...not something that someone did.  I figured we would get into this if I said something...and you asked for links in another thread a week or so ago to refute what you think is right.  I put up the links, and you still do not want to believe it.  That's OK.  Bottom line...the manuals suggest an amount and says when the oil runs out the fill plug that is good.  I do not think a little extra is going to hurt (not like a car engine being over the fill mark)...I think it is much worse not having enough oil in the trans.  But remember this, the manual is talking about when you buy the tractor, and there is no oil in it...not when you drain it and you do not get all the oil out because of the rib through the center of the trans.  Adding 3 pts to a trans that has oil still sitting in it (because not all of it was drained) just because the manual said it should take this...I think...is not the correct way to go.  I think too much oil limits the intended splash of the gears and may not properly lubricate the gears/shafts toward the top of the trans.  The correct level...is when you get oil starting to run out the fill plug.  Maybe we should start a thread on this to not go on a tangent, but this was brought up here.  Your 857 does not have that extension...the 10 pinion/limited slip differentials in the 6 speed transmissions do (from the factory).  They may need a higher level of oil for those pinions that "float" in the differential with that spring holding them in place.  That extension would accomplish that.  Let me know what you think mate. 

[rmaynard 14,945]

Although my 857 manual says that the transmission requires about 3 pints of 40W oil, when it comes to "fill" amounts, I refer to the "Toro/Wheel Horse 1956 -1999 Lubrication Recommendations."

 

LUBRICATION.pdf

 

One of the key lines in the chart says "Note: some lubricant recommendations have been updated, and will not agree with owners manual."

 

There is also a line above the capacity chart the says "capacities when dry"

 

Just sayin'
 

[Racinbob 10,406]

I've been following this with interest because it seems that the proper amount has always been a bit in question. Here's my uneducated . Through the years I've never felt that filling the transmission just to the overflow point was quite enough. Not that I'm second guessing the manufacturer but it just didn't 'feel' right to me. Add to that the confusion in what they recommend. I agree that it's somewhat of a 'splash' system but I wonder just how much gets tossed up given the relatively low RPM of the gears and the viscosity of the lube. Maybe a better word would be 'sling'. I believe a good deal of the lubrication also comes from the lube riding the gear teeth, etc. up and then flowing back down. The only transmissions I filled to the recommended level was those with a dipstick. The rest I used 3 pints. Maybe overfilled?? Possibly but, as mentioned, it's not like a motor and foaming won't be a problem. I wish now that I would have completely drained a dipstick equipped transmission and checked just how much it took to get to the fill mark. In any case the exact level isn't as critical as a motor.   

Edited August 13, 2014 by Racinbob

[stevasaurus 22,273]

Here is the thing that bothers me about this.  Every transmission that I take apart and put back together (and it is quite a few now & different kinds) gets a bench test with a 1/3 hsp electric motor for about 20 to 30 minutes...in all of the gears.  The speed of the input pulley seems comparable to full throttle when mounted on a horse.  I look down into the shift hole with a flashlight while running to see what is going on.  i can tell you that it is a war zone in there with the oil getting "slung" around.  I actually get a few drops getting thrown out the shifter hole...which means that the shifter ball is getting lubricated also.  It actually rains oil in the transmission.  My concern is that too much oil in the trans will hamper the gears, somewhat, in performing that function.  Some of the changes that Bob talks about in that chart are about changing from 10W-30 to 90-140 oil.  I do not really see much difference in the change of amounts of oil.  Yes, both the manuals and the chart say when dry...and there is really no way to know if it is dry when you drain the oil, unless you open the trans.  The thing that is really important here...it you open the fill plug and no oil comes out...you need to add oil until it does.  If you want to add another 1/2 pint...I would say fine, but more then that...I am not sure. 

 

Bob...the only gears doing a low RPM thing in there are the differential and the 11/44 toothed gear.  The cluster gear, fork gears and reverse idler are rotating as fast as the input pulley or close to it depending on what gear you are in.  You are still lubing the trans  enough if you are mowing in 1st gear for over an hour at 3/4 throttle.  They would not last 40 or 50 years and still look like new if they weren't.

Edited August 13, 2014 by stevasaurus

[Racinbob 10,406]

Once again, my has been proven to be way over priced . Without doing the calculations, the pulley diameters on my Suburban would have the input shaft about 1/2 the RPM of the motor. I didn't think the heavy gear lube would splash that much but obviously it does (remember, I only attended). Actually, that's a good thing for the transmission. What is also a good thing is that, per the chart, the 5010 calls for 3 pints. I only had a quart of lube in my tranny because that's all the store had at the time but just this morning I added an additional pint. I'd be compelled to drain some out otherwise.

[stevasaurus 22,273]

Bob, never think that your 2 cents is not appreciated.  You brought up a great point and that deserves to be in this conversation.  Actually, I look at a trans and where the fill plug is and wonder how that is enough oil.  I still can't imagine how those detente balls get any oil.  I really think that RMaynard and I are on the same plane, I'm just sitting toward the front.  :ychain:

[Retired Wrencher 4,906]

   ok I am confused now 3pts or 1-1/2 qts????? I have in the past only filled till it comes out of the filler hole and never had a problem. But some are  are non workers, some are show putters some I did use as workers.. SSSOOOOO    

[stevasaurus 22,273]

First...3 pints is 1 1/2 qts.  Here is what I would do, and I think the 2 Bob's would agree.  Once drained...fill until it comes out the fill hole...put in the plug.  Use 90 wt oil for the horse you are talking about.  If you want to add a little more...like 3 or 4 oz...go a head...if it makes you feel better.  I know in the transmissions that I have opened...if there is no water in them...they look like new...and they were filled according to the manual.  If the trans takes less then what you think it should, then you did not get all the oil out.  All of these transmissions are basically the same capacity...some like the 10 pinion/limited slip may require more oil which is why the 6 speeds have the extension at the fill hole.  Hope that makes sense. 

Edited August 13, 2014 by stevasaurus

[Racinbob 10,406]

No worries Steve. Even at my ripe old age and and having done things a certain way for years because it made sense to me, I certainly don't mind being set straight when the facts are presented. this old dog can actually learn new tricks as long as it isn't my wife trying to teach them. You did make me recheck the Suburban and my 2005 Classic GT. That one calls for 2 quarts and that's what I used but it also has a dipstick so I knew it was filled properly. I had it tipped in all four directions when I drained it to do the best I could to get all the old lube out and the two quarts took it right to the full mark so I guess it worked.

 

T1257....it depends on the pull of the moon, much like the tides............ I

Edited August 13, 2014 by Racinbob

[stevasaurus 22,273]

RacinBob...you just nailed it on the head.  If your trans has a dip stick, would you over fill it because the manual or chart says it takes 3 qts???  I don't think so...and guess what...the fill plug is your dip stick in transmissions without one.  Thanks  :orcs-cheers:

[Racinbob 10,406]

I did!?!? That's odd. Usually my thumb is on top of the nail when I hit it.

[Retired Wrencher 4,906]

First...3 pints is 1 1/2 qts.  Here is what I would do, and I think the 2 Bob's would agree.  Once drained...fill until it comes out the fill hole...put in the plug.  Use 90 wt oil for the horse you are talking about.  If you want to add a little more...like 3 or 4 oz...go a head...if it makes you feel better.  I know in the transmissions that I have opened...if there is no water in them...they look like new...and they were filled according to the manual.  If the trans takes less then what you think it should, then you did not get all the oil out.  All of these transmissions are basically the same capacity...some like the 10 pinion/limited slip may require more oil which is why the 6 speeds have the extension at the fill hole.  Hope that makes sense. 

OOps I must have had a senior moment on that Steve. Thanks  when I get it back together I will drive it around the yard and see where it is at. Thanks again and may this site never die  like the name   WHEEL HORSE.

[stevasaurus 22,273]

T1257...nice thread you started.  Thank You!! 

[MalMac 1,328]

While on this topic, here is a question that I have always thought about with a little concern. This has not much to do with the amount but the Viscosity. When you fire one of these things up with a manual transmission and the temp outside is a pleasant 10 below or better. Like said the transmission gets lubed on a splash system, what kind of lube is going on in there while the gear oil is the consistency of molasses? I can't see much splashing going on until it gets darn good and warm. There have been times I have started one let out on the clutch and the tractor darn near dies or tries to start rolling forward being in neutral. Now with this said I have only experience this with regular out of the ground oil. Wonder if synthetic makes a different in manuals. I know it did on my hydros. Just the thought of splashing 90-140w at well below temps just does not add up until that thing gets good and warm.

[rmaynard 14,945]

The only transmission that I can give winter info on is the one in my B-100. I use 85-140 GL5 gear lube. I keep it water-free. The temps here in Maryland can get down to sub-zero at times, and I have never had any issues with stalling or sluggish operation. I keep the oil level at the F mark on the dipstick (2 quarts), and the tractor sits outside with a tarp over it during the winter.

[stevasaurus 22,273]

I have straight 90 wt in mine and I use 3 different horses in the winter.  Last winter was one of the coldest on record here, and I did not notice any thing that would make me want to use a thinner oil.  Mine sit in an un-heated garage, but I do let them idle for a few minutes before I start moving snow (mainly to warm up the engine).  I know it can snow when it is below zero, but we usually are somewhere between 15 and 35 degrees when we get enough snow to plow...so I very rarely run them when it is below zero.