Posi rear end interchangeability

[Geno 1,928]

Hello all.  I bought a Raider 12 this week that has a posi rear end and wanted to know if I can put it in a 414-8 tractor.  Also, can I put the 414-8 rear end back in the raider 12.  As far as parts I have both tractors complete.  Anyone know? 

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,126]

Hard to say because I don't know much about your models... but, since you have both tractors there, just look them over.    Look at things like Axle size, frame mount to trans footprint, input pulley size and location, brake drum location and linkages etc. etc. And other mounts for anything you can see on these models .  .  That will at least give you a start on figuring things out.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Terry M

[1maidenfan 201]

_{POSI REAREND       didn't know wheel horse made those. That would be nice for snow removal and garden tilling.}  

[AMC RULES 36,945]

Must be a home built posi unit. 

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,126]

actually though, "Posi " is a name General Motors used for some of their axles that were like a  limited slip.    but without getting into that debate, I knew what GENO was refering to.   A limited slip unidrive transmission that was equiped on some wheel horses.    Stevasaures just did a rebuild thread on one of these.....Check it out

Edited August 3, 2014 by Terry M

[Geno 1,928]

_{POSI REAREND       didn't know wheel horse made those. That would be nice for snow removal and garden tilling.}  

 

Exactly, the 414-8 and snow cab I'm going to get this week was gonna become the snow blower tractor. 

[Geno 1,928]

actually though, "Posi " is a name General Motors used for some of their axles that were like a  limited slip.    but without getting into that debate, I knew what GENO was refering to.   A limited slip unidrive transmission that was equiped on some wheel horses.    Stevasaures just did a rebuild thread on one of these.....Check it out

 

Terry knows some posi history.  GM, Ford + Chrysler all had their own names for limited slip but GM won the common name battle with the Positive Traction as they called it. We use the short GM names posi or posi-trac.  This tractor has the factory posi, it hasn't been messed with. 

 

But can I change them? 

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,126]

GENO,  when you do this conversion, could we see some pics of it??

[Geno 1,928]

Sure.      But if I have to get out the welder or plasma cutter I'm not messing with it. 

[stevasaurus 22,231]

A couple of things are involved here...depending on the year of your Raider.  It should bolt right on, but measure the distance between the 4 mounting bolts where it bolts to the frame...if they are the same, it will bolt on.  The 1968 and 1969 Raiders have the brake drum mounted on the 11/44 gear (the shaft comes out the hole closest to the axle).  The 1970,1971,1972 Raiders and your 414-8 have the brake drum mounted on the cluster gear shaft (the next hole toward the front of the trans).  You will have to mess with the brake linkage in both horses if you have 1 of the older Raiders.  If you have 1 of the newer Raiders, it should be a straight swap...if the mounting holes line up. 

[Geno 1,928]

My Raider is a 1970 model.  My brake drum is toward the front and lower than the other hole that looks like it has a plug in it. 

[stevasaurus 22,231]

Excellent...just check the mounting bolts.  I'm not sure if the input pulleys are the same size on both of your horses, but the frames are the same length and the Kohler 12 and 14 are the same block.  You may have to swap the belt guards or do something like that if the pulleys are different diameters. 

[stevasaurus 22,231]

Just another thought...are you sure the "limited slip" is working in the Raider transmission?? 

[Geno 1,928]

I drove it on the trailer when I bought it, and if jacked up spinning 1 wheel makes them both spin in the same direction.  Anything else I should do? 

[stevasaurus 22,231]

Take a look at the oil and see what it looks like.  I would do as much checking as I could before I really got into it.  Going in the same direction is a good sign. 

[Geno 1,928]

Oil looks and smells good as new but it will get changed also. 

[racinfool40 202]

The limited slip differential is the 10-pinion which is a little weaker than the 414-8's 8-pinion differential..if the brake drum is mounted close to the front of the tans than it will be a direct swap..Drive pulley's are the same diameter.One may be the cast iron stlye and one may be the stamped steel style but are the same diameter...if you have the older style trans all you need to do is swap the brake rod that somes from the clutch pivot arm or brake pedal arm...The only transmissions that had  different bolt pattern were the 4 speeds used in the 953-1054's so the so the bolt holes in both transmissions are the same.

[stevasaurus 22,231]

Thanks for getting in here Mike...I know the insides...but the outsides can be out of my expertise sometimes.  Thanks for that information on the bolt patterns...that is always in the back of my mind when someone tries to do something like this. 

[oaktown1987 82]

If u put pinion gears in backwards it locks it together

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