Changing transmission oil in 414 - 8

[jsp_333 222]

After checking the transmission dipstick and seeing predictably black oil on the stick I thought I gotta change this stuff. 

I've owned the tractor for approx 18 months.

After spending the better part of a week removing the drain plug ( local small engine guy told me the secret - use the female end of a socket extension bar).

I drain the old oil out and am thinking why not run 500 ml of new oil through to kinda flush the thing out.

Goes in clear - comes out as black as the old stuff.

I fill it with the 1.5 litres  of new gear oil not the 1.9 litres as per manual.

Dipstick shows way to much oil in trans so I start draining.

I get it down to just above fill line and think lets take it out for a spin in the yard.

Re-check dipstick there is still too much so I continue draining.

 

Only this time it looks like there has been some contamination of the gear oil - you know that chocolate brown colour it goes

when water (or coolant)  has contaminated transmission fluid.  Only I know only brand new 90 weight gear oil went in.

Naturally I don't know exactly what the PO had in there.

 

What to do next?

Do I flush the whole system by pouring a whole lot of new gear oil through it?

I've read here about flushing the trans with kerosene - would really rather not.

Also I only drained about a litre  (1 quart)  of oil out  - I measured - and was really only able to get 1 litre back in eventhough

transmission should take about  1.9 litres or 2 quarts.

Any tricks to draining all the oil out.  I put one jack stand under right rear axle making the tractor lean to the left hoping to improve the drain.

The front tires were on the ground not up on jack stands. 

Engine / transmission were cold - did I mention how long it took me to get the plug off?

Can you put in TOO MUCH transmission oil  and damage transmission like you can with engine oil?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the length of my tale of woe.

 

John

 

P.S. everything was working perfectly until I thought I should do the proper maintenance on tractor

 

 

[rmaynard 14,984]

Drain the oil, lift the front end of the tractor so that all the oil gets over the hump in the bottom of the transmission. Put in about 2 QTS. of kerosene or diesel oil and run it around for about 5 to 10 minutes. Then drain again, lifting the front end as before. Fill with 1-1/4 QTS of transmission oil, then continue to top off slowly until proper reading is achieved on the dip stick.

[stevasaurus 22,285]

John...thank you for all the information.  A few things come to mind.  I used to be a kerosene fan for flushing out a trans, I am now into using diesel for that.  There is a rib that runs through the bottom of the trans case where the center bolt is, with out jacking up the front of the horse (about 2 feet off the ground), a good maybe 6 oz will not drain...plus what may be caught in the axle tubes.  You did good tipping the trans toward the drain on the back end.

 

Drain the trans, put in 1 1/2 qts of diesel and run the trans in different gears (on blocks) for about 20 minutes.  Drain doing what I talked about above...repeat the procedure if you think it needs it.  Fill with the proper oil for your tractor. run level on blocks and check the dip stick.  You should not hurt the trans with having a little too much oil in there...but remember that the gears in these transmissions throw the oil around for lubrication...too much oil, and it may not be able to throw it around like it is supposed to.  Hope that makes since. 

 

Bob and I posted at the same time...as usual.  Put what he said and what I said together and you will be OK.    I have done trannys for 20 to 30 minutes running with diesel...depending on what is going on inside...the 10 to 15 minutes that Bob says may not be enough.  You will not hurt anything if you have the horse on blocks.  Two reasons I like to put the horse on blocks...if you have a seal that is leaking...you will not be leaking fuel into your grass...2nd...if you do experience a problem...you will not have to push the horse back into the garage. 

Edited July 10, 2014 by stevasaurus

[varosd 1,185]

agree with the smart guys above.  I had to flush out my 416-8 about 4 times. 

 

not sure why it was black then turned cocoa puff brown after the flush.  maybe water caught up some where?

I used kerosene to flush...  runs great now!

[Marv 867]

Same procedure I use. Works fine.

Marvin

[squonk 39,296]

Steve, sense Bob is on the east coast, his post counts first because he is in the earlier time zone.   ​  If you walk around your block counter clockwise enough you can make your time go backwards!   Agree about the fuel oil in the grass. We had to use food grade grease on the golf course to keep from leaving dead grass streaks.

 

 

   

Edited July 11, 2014 by squonk

[oldlineman 1,453]

not a tranny man but are you taking out the plug on the bottom of the tranny to drain it. My 1989 414-8 has a plug also on the left side that will not let all of the oil come out. If I am not mistaken you stated that you jacked the right side of the tractor to get more oil out of the left side. The drain plug is on the bottom of the tranny, close to the hitch takes I believe a 3/8 allen wrench.  Hope this helps    Bob

[jsp_333 222]

Drained the trans again when I got home from work.

Raised the front end as suggested - thanks guys - and a lot more oil drained away.

It came out normal ie. a muddy brown colour.

The contamination I spoke of seems to have disappeared.

Now we all know that contamination doesn't just disappear so I'm thinking what I saw last night wasn't contaminated oil

as tractor has been working fine for 18 months and I know I put the correct oil in yesterday.

Possibly didn't heat up all the oil as I only ran the tractor around the yard for 5 mins.

So not sure about a kerosene or diesel flush now. 

What's the wisdom on flushing a tranny that hasn't been contaminated?

Is it preventative  maintenance - done every 5-10 years  or a last ditch effort before a complete overhaul?

 

And yes there does appear to be a second drain virtually hidden by the hitch. I'll have a closer look tomorrow.

This was part of my problem.

I know these tractors are beautifully designed and before I even get started I'm looking at the drain plug and thinking there is no way all the oil is coming out.

Should have trusted my instincts and kept looking.

 

John

[MalMac 1,328]

When you said before the the oil was black. Usually tranny oil is dirty brown or if it's milky it is because of water in there with it. Now with it being black, It reminds me back when we were a dealer we had some customers take used motor oil and put in there tractors transmission. We would be doing a service or repair on their tractor, pull the dipstick and sure enough it would be black. We tried to ask the customer why he did that. What he said is not worth repeating here. We got to when we found black oil in the tranny to not even ask why. If I remember we ran into 3 or 4 like that. Evey one of them were in for leaking seals. Customers would say I just added oil or changed the oil and the seals started to leak soon after. Jeez I wonder why.

[stevasaurus 22,285]

The wisdom behind flushing...I am not a big fan of flushing.  If you think you have something in your trans that you think should be out of there, then open up the trans and clean it out...check the bearings...change the seals...check the gears...put it back together.  Now you absolutely know how your transmission is inside.   All that is not hard to do.

 

That being said...flushing with diesel will definitely loosen and clean everything that is in there...and "most" of it will drain out (including water and milky oil).  I like to flush a trans before I open it up, it really cuts down on the mess.  I don't think flushing would have worked on this trans...and a lot of them that I have opened have looked like this.

 

 

or this one...

 

 

or this one...

 

 

This one was flushed first...

 

 

With what you said with the milky oil, I would at least flush it.  Now add clean oil...and maybe check to see what the oil looks like next spring...drain and put in fresh oil then.  Make sure you have a good boot over the shifter, and remember you can still get some condensation moisture in the trans during the winter months.  Hope that answers your question.  

[squonk 39,296]

Steve,all that gear oil and diesel will make your shop stinky!  You should do all that work in your kitchen instead!   

[jsp_333 222]

At this point I don't think there is anything in the transmission that shouldn't be there. 

And I'm not going to flush it because I don't believe it needs it.

I'm posting an image of what I think I saw on Wed. night. 

It's used oil mixed with brand new oil. 

You can see a definite difference between the two but nothing like Steve's first photo.

But to the untrained eye a milky appearance all the same

Also pics of the drain plug underneath the transmission. 

Absolutely invisible with the hitch on and if you don't know to look for it.

Opened it up last night and got another 1/2 qt. out of a "drained" transmission.

 

Thanks to all.

 

John

 

p.s. Last night, on a somewhat unrelated note I'm telling my wife about flushing a tractor transmission, in my deepest manly man voice,

and whether to used diesel or kerosene and she comes back with "use diesel, I love the smell of diesel."

I think she's a keeper.

 

p.p.s. Don't even think of asking for photos.