Intermittent PTO on 244-5

[Kentrodngun 0]

Hi all. New to the forum. I was an old C160 owner and loved it until a big pine came down and destroyed it many moons ago. I got a 244-5 as a replacement for a while but stopped using it as I mainly use my large farm tractor with a brush hog for field mowing. Well, now the wife wants neater trimming around the house so it was resurrection time for the old 244-5. Engine started right up but the carb needed rebuilding and cleaning - runs great now. But not without problems.

 

The electric PTO comes & goes. Given the amount of insect larve in the carb and fuse box, I think the first order of business is to clean the switch. So, my questions:

How does one remove the switch from the dash without breaking it?

Any cleaning suggestions?

Also, how, in detail, hopefully in a diagram, does one test the switch?

I have all the manuals and demystification sheets, but there is no diagram for us neophites which describes how to test it.

 

I tried applying 12 volts to the PTO plug (unplugged it, crimped spade connectors on wires, plugged them into the electric clutch plug and screwed the other ends onto a car battery. NOTHING. But just the same, I drove the tractor for about 100 feet and it (PTO) kicked in and I mowed for a while until it stopped. Ran it back up to the big garage and lo and behold, it kicked in again but stopped again after a little while.

 

I tried the Ohm resistance test too with zero readings but again, the PTO does work at times. Very frustrating! Hope someone can help.

 

Happy July 4th America and all the members of the forum. Have a safe holiday,  John

[oldredrider 2,553]

If I remember correctly, the PTO switch is a slide type deal. There are plastic clips on the back of it behind the dash. You are correct, easy to break if not gentle with it.

The switch is probably the problem with the PTO working intermittently. A good cleaning with electrical parts cleaner hopefully will get it working again.

Try applying 12 volts directly to the PTO to see if it works consistantly. If so, clean the switch and keep your fingers crossed.

[Kentrodngun 0]

Thanks for your reply. Would you depress the clips with a screwdriver and try to pull the switch out? I tried this but it looked like the plastic clips were bunching up rather than flattening out. As I said earlier, I applied 12 volts directly to the PTO with no results.

[oldredrider 2,553]

Try reversing the leads +/- to the pto and the 12v power source. If the pto doesn't react, bad pto.

If pto works...great.

To test pto switch, run a jumper from pink wire to grey wire (bypassing switch). PTO should work if pto passed above test. If the pto does work then you have a dirty or bad switch.

Also check in line fuse (15 amp) for a GOOD connection since pto draws current from that circuit.

One other possibility is a "flakey" neutral switch. Check and clean that too since the tractor sounds like it was invaded by a swarm of locusts.

Let us know what you find out.

[Kentrodngun 0]

Sadly, reversing the leads to the spare battery yielded no results, so it sounds like the PTO's coil is done. I looked on Ebay and the prices are outrageous. Cheaper to buy a new machine given all the potential future problems connected with a 20+ year old machine.

 

Questions - and yes I know it is dangerous but we are retired, have a big old farm (not a lot of $$) and no little ones around that can get hurt.

I am wondering if I can permanently engage the PTO. Safety considerations aside, I know the risks but cannot afford to drop multi hundreds of dollars into an old machine.

 

Can I just tighten the PTO clutch adjusters to have it engaged full time? Will it work? Do I have to disable or bypass anything?

I think it may make starting a bit tougher but the engine usually starts quick & easy.

 

Thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.

[oldredrider 2,553]

One option you have is to post a "wanted" ad in the classified section. Not sure, but pto's from other 200 series tractors of that vintage may interchange.

With the model # of the tractor, check Toro's web site for the pto part number.

I know tons of 211's were made and they may work on your 244.

[Kentrodngun 0]

I will. Thanks. I manually locked up the clutch plate on the PTO but even with another battery hooked up, it wouldn't crank fast enough to start. Loosened it up and it started immediately. Wish there was some way I could manually disengage the idler, start the engine and re-engage the idler (naturally I would have the electric clutch plate locked up).

[Kentrodngun 0]

I just recovered from foot surgery (arthritis) enough to tackle the PTO issue again. I did find a used reasonable priced one on Ebay. I installed it (boy, you need a stout gear puller to get the old one off) but discovered it was constantly engaged. Seems the PTO switch was shot too. Not wanting to spend another $50 + shipping, I cut the power lead from the switch and installed another toggle on the dash.

 

Worked like a charm and I'm back to mowing again - just in time for the non-growing season here. Deck is very low though and I'm scalping and picking up rocks. Guess I'll cruise the forums to find out how to adjust  the deck but I'm not overly hopeful as the top on the belt guards on the deck are just about touching the frame. Ugh!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,259]

First thing that comers to mind is are the tire pressures up to spec?

 

What deck do you have? 38" or 42" width of cut? How many blades?

Will look for the appropriate manual.

 

Garry

[Kentrodngun 0]

Garry, thanks for your reply. I just downloaded the deck operational & parts manuals. I will report on my success or continued failure once I make the adjustments.

 

I also downloaded the bagger manuals as I am not picking up very much of the clippings - perhaps the deck adjustments wil help? We'll see.

 

In reply to your question, yes, tire pressures are correct.

[km3h 543]

I would make sure that the replacement switch is capable of carrying the amperage needed to keep the PTO engaged.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,259]

Seems to me there were some service bulletins but not knowing the deck model number/size I just passed over them.

 

Garry

[Kentrodngun 0]

Thanks fellas.

 

Nick, amperage on the switch is more than adequate, thanks for your concern

.

Garry, would appreciate a link to the service bulletins, if applicable.

 

Tractor Model 22140501 Serial 1020$$$

38" Mower Deck Model 78215 Serial 3900$$$

Bagger System Model 0738BS01 Serial 20000$$$

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,259]

There are quite a few SB for the tractor

Open the manuals and do a search for 22-14O501 (Use a dash and the 1st O is for Onan, the last 2 are numbers)

 

One SB for the 78215 mower deck.

 

When the results first come up they are listed by Submission date. Click on that and change to Title and change the Descending to Ascending. They make more sense that way.

 

Garry

[Kentrodngun 0]

Got them Garry. Thank you. A lot of them I already learned through trial & error but that's how my entire existance has been.

 

My signature on the Tractor-By-Net site is "I learn by my mistakes and I've learned a lot". Seems appropriate here too.

[Kentrodngun 0]

OK, post script and closure to most of my issues. Post installation of the PTO, I installed a new kevlar drive belt. Also, I was able to adjust the deck high enough to avoid the rocks and nasty dips on the property around the house. High grass (field edge) mowing required reducing the ground speed to 1 or 2, but I'm mowing without scalping now. Only remaining issue is that clippings are not going into the bagger but that's not an electrical issue. Time to cruise the other forums for that answer.

 

Many thanks to all for your guidance & suggestions.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Kentrodngun