GrumpyOldBastige 1 #1 Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Before I drop a lit M250 in the gas tank and walk away, please help me get my Horse started... It is a 312-8 I've been having the problem of the starter spinning freely and not engaging the flywheel. Some light persuasion with a hammer fixed that... that said, I just read about the magnets, and not wanting to dislodge them, so that option is off the table now. This allowed me to run the Horse last weekend, until the PTO belt to the mower deck let go... I replaced the PTO belt yesterday, and backed it out of the garage to start it up. Hit the key- nothing. This is with a new battery, starter solenoid, ignition switch, and all new safety switches (clutch, PTO, seat- even though the seat is a kill switch) Tapped the starter- nothing. Removed battery, checked wiring to ignition switch. Reassembled that, then reconnected battery. Engine fired, but died once I let go of the key. Interestingly the key has to be held somewhere between RUN and START to keep the engine running. All connections are good as far as I can see/examine, so I think I'm dealing with one of three things, and this is where I need help. 1- the relay on the right side frame rail- does that control start/run functions and do they go bad? 2- ignition switch is messed up 3- I accidentally sparked off the solenoid when we were rebuilding it, could I have shorted it out? 4- there is no 4 unless you have another possibility 5- looks like I'll need to pull the starter and clean it up, that should fix the not-engaging issue, I think(?) help! Edited June 28, 2014 by GrumpyOldBastige Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 16,211 #2 Posted June 28, 2014 You didn't mention what tractor you were referring to, but I am assuming it's the 312-8 since it was mentioned in a previous post. It sounds to me like you have a bad ignition switch, and the Bendix on the starter needs to be cleaned. Also, check ALL ground points, specifically battery to frame, frame to engine, engine to starter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpyOldBastige 1 #3 Posted June 28, 2014 Will do. I edited my original post to reflect 312-8. Thanks for catching it. I assume the ignition switches aren't universal- take the old one to the shop and see if they can match it? The rest I can handle. Is there a how-to, or instruction thread, on how to clean it out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky-(Admin) 22,917 #4 Posted June 28, 2014 The 312 came with two types on motors (K301 and M12). Make sure you get the correct ignition, they are not the same. Mike............. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpyOldBastige 1 #5 Posted June 28, 2014 Mike, where on the tractor can I verify that? Stamped into engine block? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 23,236 #6 Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) There should be a tag on the engine that gives the model and serial#. Is that a high mount starter on the engine?? Check out this link... Yours should look like this if it is the K301...I think. Edited June 28, 2014 by stevasaurus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wishin4a416 2,191 #7 Posted June 28, 2014 Is there a how-to, or instruction thread, on how to clean it out? If your referring to the bendix, remove starter and dip in about 2 inches of kerosene or diesel and brush it clean with an old paintbrush. Then blow it off and put a little ATF on the moving parts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpyOldBastige 1 #8 Posted June 29, 2014 If you head over to my "FNG" thread in the intro forum, you'll see some pictures of the Horse, and serial numbers found on the horse. To answer the question of which engine, it looks like I have the M12. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpyOldBastige 1 #9 Posted June 29, 2014 Just ordered a new ignition switch off Amazon. It's going to take a while to get here, but July weather = less frequent mowing, anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,393 #10 Posted June 29, 2014 Go into the Manuals section and search using the 21-12K806 model number with a dash. Would help if you could get the serial number off the same decal. 17 files will come up. Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpyOldBastige 1 #11 Posted July 5, 2014 Replaced ignition switch today and cleaned/resecured all ground wires. Same deal. Have to hold key between run and start to get anything to happen. Looks like, on top of that, dead battery, too. When I turn the key to run, the voltmeter does not move. It jumped right to 13 volts before that. :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 23,236 #12 Posted July 5, 2014 Is it possible you have what we call a "high resistance open"...a wire that is broken inside the insulation?? You can use your meter to check for continuity through each wire...recommend isolating each wire and testing for a short by putting your meter leads on each end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpyOldBastige 1 #13 Posted July 5, 2014 I don't have a meter... my dad might, I'll have to borrow one. Then- how do you use it? Anything involving nuts and bolts- I can figure it out. Anything involving wires... I get fed up quick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 23,236 #14 Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) This is fairly easy, and you can use this method to check fuses and wires for continuity. Plug the black lead of the meter into the negative/ground side...usually on the left of the meter. Plug the red lead into the positive volt/ohms/amps side...usually right side bottom. Turn the meter dial to X1K ohms. The meter needle should go from the left side and peg the right side when you touch the leads together. This means that you have a short...and thus continuity. Take your wire and put one lead on each end...if the needle pegs to the right...it is a good wire. If it does not, the wire is broken inside the insulation...same thing with a fuse. Hope that helps. If you have the switch wired correctly, this very well could be what is wrong. If the needle does not peg when you touch the leads together, you have a dead battery in the meter. Change the battery. Edited July 5, 2014 by stevasaurus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpyOldBastige 1 #15 Posted July 13, 2014 Good news guys, easy fix...this time... Bad ignition switch was the culprit. One of the terminals on the back of the switch was loose. Replaced it, double and triple-checked the wires, and all is good. Just need to dismantle the starter. As far as the bendix: I have neither kerosene, nor diesel. Would mineral spirits do the trick? If not, what would be a good substitute? Ran very strong yesterday when I cut the grass, except for the new PTO belt popping off a couple of times. Turns out you need to put tension on it when the deck is lowered. That explains why it worked so well when I had to do a "field repair" (yes I cut power to the deck first lol). It's sitting in the garage, waiting for next time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Molon_Labe 731 #16 Posted July 14, 2014 As far as the bendix: I have neither kerosene, nor diesel. Would mineral spirits do the trick? If not, what would be a good substitute? Mineral spirits is a great solvent, go for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
