LindsayLaperr 5 #1 Posted May 31, 2014 Battery is shot but we jumped it off the truck, engine turning over but no spark. It's not the plug, it's not the cap on the lead. Any trouble shooting advice? Not familiar with this engine or magnetos -- really green. Any advice? Any common problems? Best place to start? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LindsayLaperr 5 #2 Posted May 31, 2014 Last picture: after the fuel filter, what's this fuel line going into before the carb? First pic: where is the magneto / points/ condenser? 2nd pic: capacitor? What is? Sorry, I am so green. Trying to get to know this beast ... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky-(Admin) 23,327 #3 Posted May 31, 2014 The item the fuel line goes into before the carb is the fuel pump. The small silver cylindrical item is the condenser, the small cover its attached to should have the points underneath. What I don't see is a coil. I wonder if this was originally a magneto ignition motor and someone started swapping it to points/coil/condenser. Mike.......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LindsayLaperr 5 #4 Posted May 31, 2014 Can you send me a picture of what it should look like (the coil) ..? Thanks for the reply!!!!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky-(Admin) 23,327 #5 Posted May 31, 2014 Here's a pic. The coil is circled in red and the condenser is circled in blue. Mike.......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LindsayLaperr 5 #6 Posted May 31, 2014 Ok, I took a pic of the same angle on our machine, but we found the condenser on the OPPOSITE side of the flywheel ... Are we thinking we have a Kohler k301s and we have something else? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LindsayLaperr 5 #7 Posted May 31, 2014 Ah! My bad - brake wasn't engaged so no spark, now we have spark buuuuut starter not engaging proper ... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,571 #8 Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) Lindsay, this is very unusual and therfore quite interesting. 3 wires going to the condensor. 1 wire would be the norm for standard coil ignition Can you post a picture of where the white wire (yellow arrow) leads too? Also post a pic of where the lower blue wire (blue arrow) leads to. Edited May 31, 2014 by Save Old Iron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,571 #9 Posted May 31, 2014 to clarify your starter issue - is the starter spiining when you turn the key to the START position ? if the starter is spinning but not turning the engine over, that would be a MECHANICAL problem with the starter. It may be as simple as spraying some cleaner onto the nose of the starter. This symptom could aslo be caused by a low charge on the battery. If the starter is not spinning, we need to do more ELECTRICAL troublehooting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LindsayLaperr 5 #10 Posted May 31, 2014 Yep. Curious isn't it?! The white (it's actually orange) is going to the brake --- and the blue is heading in under the flywheel cover Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LindsayLaperr 5 #11 Posted May 31, 2014 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Starter is spinning but not fully catching - it's grinding Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,571 #12 Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) Did you find the location of the ignition coil asked about in an earlier post ? post a pic of the coil please. I can't think of any reason the ignition system condensor should be connected to the parking brake wiring. I'm betting it is a kill wire ? for the magneto ? sorry to ask for so many pics but you do have some strange wiring connections in the ignition system. Edited May 31, 2014 by Save Old Iron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LindsayLaperr 5 #13 Posted May 31, 2014 No coil! Magneto. Sorry this probably seems all over the map, I'm really green and learning a lot in a short amount of time ... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It got dark out in the yard so hard to get good pics but I will try to get some good ones of the wiring tomorrow AM Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,571 #14 Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) thanks -understood. don't worry about the noobie stuff. half the fun of this is the "long distance" troubleshooting process. this wiring to the condensor has my interest piqued right now - especially the orange wire leading off to the brakes. Edited May 31, 2014 by Save Old Iron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,571 #15 Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) No coil! Magneto. Looking at your original pic post, the spark plug wire does disappear into the flywheel area. Finding out what is at the other end of spark plug wire will tell us what you have for an ignition system. Looking back over your first post, if the tractor has been sitting outside for any extended period of time, you may want to reomve the flywheel shroud to clean any debris or nests that may be blocking the cooling fins on the engine. Removing the flywheel shroud will also expose the igntion system for identification and inspection for any possible rodent damage. Edited May 31, 2014 by Save Old Iron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,532 #16 Posted May 31, 2014 The 1968 Charger 12 uses 2 different Kohler engine specs but the tractor model number was the same. Early production used Kohler K301S-4712B with starter/generator and battery ignition Late production using Kohler K301S-47147B with Bendix starter, 10 amp alternator and magneto ignition with points and condenser Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick_in_CT 156 #17 Posted May 31, 2014 Lindsay, Is this tractor new to you and you have never seen the engine run, or was this a running tractor and it developed this non-start problem? I grew up running a Charger 12, it's a very rugged tractor. The starter not engaging can easily be a low battery or bad (dirty) connections either at the battery terminals, the connection where the battery cable connects to the starter, or the ground connection from the batter to the tractor frame. All need to be clean and tight, and of course you need 12 volts at the battery. Low battery charge or dirty connections will provide insufficient power to spin the charger fast enough, and it will make a pretty nasty grinding sound. It can also be a mechanical problem with the bendix in the starter, which a little spray may help, as Save Old Iron suggested. If you don't have a battery charger and are jumping the battery from the truck, just make sure that the jumper cables are making a good connection so you are getting full power from the truck battery. Use caution when working around the battery. No smoking, and don't make a connection from the positive terminal of the battery to anything metal on the tractor or you will find yourself welding. What are your plans for this tractor? Rick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LindsayLaperr 5 #18 Posted June 2, 2014 Hey guys! Was out of town for the weekend picking up the other beast of burden - 1976 Harley Davidson iron head (not mine) so didn't get any further on the tractor -- Gary: I was told mine is a 1969, would it stand to reason that they continued with bendix starter, alternator, magneto points & condenser? That seems right to me based on what I've been able to figure out / see... Rick: the tractor is new to me, I'm new to tractors altogether and it's in the condition it came to me in (non starting) except cleaner with a halfway done carb clean and some tinkering. Thanks for ALL the advice and help, I'll get that picture for you ASAP save old iron --- anxious to get home and get into it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,532 #19 Posted June 2, 2014 Do you have the tractor model number and serial number off the ID plate below the dash housing? Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LindsayLaperr 5 #20 Posted June 2, 2014 Gary- unfortunately the previous owners rust protection included painting over the decals!! Major disappointment when I realized that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LindsayLaperr 5 #21 Posted June 4, 2014 Are these helpful? Slow going, lots of gunk to clean up - if I believe the seller it was running a year ago but sat in the shed since... Hard to wrench anything when you have a 10 month old climbing all over you!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,532 #22 Posted June 4, 2014 The 3 different ignition systems are described in this manual Section 6 If you follow the light colored wire that is connected to the condenser back to it's origin does it go to a terminal on the ignition switch identified with an M for magneto? Garry 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LindsayLaperr 5 #23 Posted June 12, 2014 Anyyyyway, that carb finally got it's full clean and the thing runs like a champ - I think the starter needs to come off for a rebuild and probably change the transmission fluid --- it IS a magneto, points, condenser set up. I'll post a video soon, best day ever hearing that guy fire up. Goona post an "in search of" some parts I'm looking to replace - it is close, I think I got a killer deal cause it didn't take much to get it going and it sounds great. Thanks for all your help guys! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,571 #24 Posted June 12, 2014 Lindsay, thanks for the update and confirmation on the ignition system - not something we see everyday on this model. Good to hear your back on track. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
