PTO Wiring issue for 520-8

[jcndtown 10]

Newbie here so first want to thank everyone for such a great forum.  I recently acquired a 520-8 that supposedly never had any attachments on it.  This may be true as it has 106 hours showing on the meter.

 

Here is my question.  When the PTO lever is pulled back everything is engaged and spinning.  When I push the lever forward this causes the engine to shut off.  First Wheel Horse but I am guessing that is backwards. 

Also, there is no wiring running to the switch under the seat so at this moment that does not effect starting or stopping of the tractor.  It will only start when the PTO is pulled back which instantly engages the pulleys.

 

Has anyone seen this before or can help in trying to figure out the correct wiring.  Also would like to identify the starting point/color of the wire that is suppose to go back to the switch under the seat to see if it is there.

 

Thanks for any help in advance.

 

Jeff

[Desko 623]

I don't own a 520 but I know they are full of wiring issues check and make sure all the connections are good and making contact

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

When the PTO lever is pulled back everything is engaged and spinning.  When I push the lever forward this causes the engine to shut off.  First Wheel Horse but I am guessing that is backwards. 

 

Well, let's start with a little clarification

 

"everything is engaged and spinning"

 

does that mean the mower deck is engaged (blades moving) with the PTO lever in the OFF position?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,393]

Detailed wiring diagram

 

Garry

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

it is considered normal operation for the engine to shut down if the seat switch is not operational when the PTO is placed in the ON position (protection for the operator not being seated and possibly having their toes under the mowing deck when the PTO is engaged).

[jcndtown 10]

Save Old Iron,

 

I acquired just the tractor...no deck or other attachments.  I will be putting a two stage Wheel Horse snow blower on it that I have.

When the PTO lever is pulled back is when the tractor will start and the pulleys on the side start to spin.  When the lever is pushed forward (engaged for what I would think and also the manual states, is when it cuts the power to the engine.  The PTO lever when forward is acting like a kill switch and shuts the tractor down.  As mentioned the wire under the seat is not attached not I see one hanging loose and that does not prevent the tractor when starting when the PTO is in the "disengaged" position. The outer most pulley unless it was changed out has no wear or paint missing from it which again leads me to my understanding that there was never any attachments on the tractor. 

 

Thanks.

Thanks Gary for the wiring diagram.

[bmsgaffer 2,052]

Welcome!

Just for clarification:

 

On wheel horse PTO's the lever is BACK for off and FORWARD for on.

 

The pto bell WILL spin when there are no belts attached even when in the BACK or DISENGAGED position. The belts from the attachments (of which you have none at the moment) help stop the PTO bell from spinning. (frictions of the bearings, slight brushing on the wear surface, etc)

 

So that all leads back to the seat switch. When you push the lever forward (ENGAGING the PTO) the seat switch thinks that you are not in the seat and shuts the tractor down.

 

Fix that seat switch and you will be good to go!

 

EDIT: Your PTO may need adjustment as well to make sure that it is in fact completely disengaging when you pull the lever back and release the pressure.

Edited May 12, 2014 by bmsgaffer

[jcndtown 10]

Brandon,  Thanks for the welcome.

 

Here is what I found so far.  Taped up under the WH I found the three prong plug and attached it to the prongs for the seat switch. 

Started with PTO in Disengaged position like I should.  Bell housing still spinning but per what you said that it normal

without any attachments.  Lifted my body enough off the seat but the WH did not shut down which I hoped it should.

If I am correct it should just like any other mower with a safety seat switch.  Sat back down and moved lever to engaged position

and once again tractor shuts down.  It does not appear that the seat switch is having any effect with it plugged in. 

 

Do you think there has to be an attachment on the WH for all to work correctly? 

 

Appreciate your response.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,393]

Here is the tractor operator manual. Read up on the dash indicator lights.

 

Use the test switch to see if they are all working as designed.

When the tractor fails to start with the pto OFF what lights are on?

 

Attachments are not wired to this model of tractor like some models.

 

Garry

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,393]

There are 2 pto switches.

One pto switch along with the transmission clutch pedal switch controls the starter.

The other pto switch along with the seat switch controls the ignition/spark circuit.

 

Garry

[bmsgaffer 2,052]

Brandon,  Thanks for the welcome.

 

Here is what I found so far.  Taped up under the WH I found the three prong plug and attached it to the prongs for the seat switch. 

Started with PTO in Disengaged position like I should.  Bell housing still spinning but per what you said that it normal

without any attachments.  Lifted my body enough off the seat but the WH did not shut down which I hoped it should.

If I am correct it should just like any other mower with a safety seat switch.  Sat back down and moved lever to engaged position

and once again tractor shuts down.  It does not appear that the seat switch is having any effect with it plugged in. 

 

Do you think there has to be an attachment on the WH for all to work correctly? 

 

Appreciate your response.

 

Check with the manual on the test lights like Garry said. I have no experience with the newer machines that have these lights so I cant comment on how they operate.

 

My guess is that the seat switch is actually bad (or the connections to it are corroded/bad), which is why it may have been unplugged.

 

The tractors will not shut off when you get off the seat unless you have the PTO running. Basically, you are allowed to get off and leave the tractor running (preferably in park!), but not while you have the mower blades/tiller/whatever spinning at full tilt.

 

**WARNING AT END OF STATEMENT** You should be able to use a short piece of wire going between the seat switch terminals on the wiring harness to SIMULATE the seat switch being closed. You may have to check the wiring diagrams in the manual or someone here with more experience on the newer models will chime in on which ones to connect since you say its a 3 terminal. DO NOT LEAVE THIS JUMPERED, THIS IS ONLY FOR TESTING PURPOSES AND PRESENTS SIGNIFICANT DANGER TO YOUR HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELL-BEING.

Edited May 12, 2014 by bmsgaffer

[bmsgaffer 2,052]

Based on the wiring diagram that Garry linked to:

 

*** WARNING THIS IS FOR TESTING PURPOSES ONLY ***

There should be a red, orange and brown wire attached to the seat switch connector. If you jumper the orange and brown you should be able to have the tractor run when the pto is engaged. If this is the case BUY A NEW SEAT SWITCH AND REPLACE IT IMMEDIATELY. DO NOT RUN THE TRACTOR WITH JUMPER IN PLACE.

[varosd 1,185]

Welcome to Red Square!

 

Jeff, Any pictures?

 

check fuses, dirty,burnt 9 pin Molex connector etc

[jcndtown 10]

Thanks guys for all the welcomes,

 

 

As I continue with the help from here this is what I have found and what has worked/not worked.

 

With a jumper in at the connector between the red and brown plug the WH still starts and pulleys spin when lever in in the disengaged position.  Put lever down to engage with the jumper still in and the engine shuts off.  When trying to start the tractor with the jumper in and the lever in the engaged position the engine does not start and the PTO Lever light on the dashboard comes on.

 

While trying to trace out wires I did find a gray wire that has either tight tape or shrink wrap around the end of it.  This comes out of a set of wires that is sleeved in front of the battery on the engine side.  The wiring diagram says gray is for 'test' but I do not see anywhere that this would slide onto if the end was not covered.  Does anyone know where this should/or shouldn't be attach to?

 

Also there looks like what is a 1' x 1 1/2" flat piece of metal with three connectors coming off of it that is next to what I believe is the coil.

Each has a wire attached to it with the middle wire being red and the the two outside being white.  To me what is weird if this is stock is that the red and white closest to coil have a blue protective sleeve around the ends where the white wire closest to the battery does not.  Does anyone know if this is correct?

 

Thanks again for any responses.

 

As soon as I see where I can d/load pics on here I will.  Was not sure if this was the proper spot to show them as the topic heading is under electrical.

[Ed Kennell 41,404]

That 1x1.5" of metal is your regulator/rectifier.  The two outside lugs go to the alternator and the center one goes to the battery thru the 30 amp fuse. There is also a gray wire on the  outside rear lug. This is the signal wire that goes to the tachometer.  

 

[varosd 1,185]

posting some close up photos of wiring harness might help. multiple ways to post pictures..I use old Photobucket.

[jcndtown 10]

Thanks for all the help guys.  Here are the results of which I do not see it stated anywhere in the manual. 

As Brandon pointed out to me the PTO bell will spin in the disengaged position when there are not any attachments

on the tractor,  Engage the PTO lever and the engine shuts off.  Went through the wiring and could not see anything

out of place and all the lights lit up correctly on the dash.  I decided to hook up the two stage snow blower to see if 

that would make a difference.  Once attached I engaged the PTO and now no issues at all.  This looks like that there is a 

shut off if the PTO is engaged and there is not anything attached.  Problem Resolved!  

 

Next question?  While looking at the wiring I found what I identified as an air sensor that has a brown and black wire attached to it.

It is just hanging loose with nada attached to what looks like two small spots where hoses may go.  Again looked through the manual

and nothing is mentioned about it.  Does anyone know where it should be attached on the tractor....is there hoses supposed to be

going to it and if so where do the other end/ends plug into? Also, what is its purpose?  The motor seems to be running strong without any kind of hesitation to it.

 

Thanks again for any help. 

[Ed Kennell 41,404]

Sounds like a sensor to measure the air pressure drop through the air filter. Sensor should trip when the filter needs cleaned or replaced.   Look under the air filter lower pan for the hose connection.

[varosd 1,185]

air filer sensor should go to the right on the (facing it) firewall. the air line that goes to the air filter will break off the air sensor nipple since its just made of plastic.

 

bad picture sorry

 

Edited May 18, 2014 by varosd

[jcndtown 10]

Thanks for the info on the sensor.  Mine still has the nipple attached so after I see where it goes I may try to find a hose an connect it.

 

Don,  Maybe it may just be my computer but your picture did not come through.  Just see the property address for it which is not even

allowing me to try to cut and paste it somewhere else to take a look.

 

Jeff

[jcndtown 10]

Thanks Don,  I can now see the picture.  Is there a nipple on each side of the sensor?  On one side I have one however on the other side which looks like the side you have the hose attached there is a rough piece of plastic without one.  I wonder if there should be one and it broke off just like you mentioned they do.  Hence the reason why it is just hanging under the hood.  How is yours attached to the bar as I do not see any screw holes?

 

Thanks.