Tractor Pulling Questions

[wh500special 2,055]

There has been a fair amount of discussion lately about competative pulling with your Wheel Horses. I have to admit that I don't have a whole bunch of interest in doing the work it would take to put a puller on the track, but I do have a few questions:

1. How much pulling FORCE is generated when dragging the sled down the track? What I mean here is if you put a scale in the chain that connects the tractor to the sled, what does it typically read? NOT how much the sled weighs.

2. How fast does the tractor/sled combo move down the track? I'm guessing about 3 mph, but don't know.

3. Aside from measuring distance pulled, is any other data gathered during a run? Speed, force, weight, etc.

4. Does anybody ever manage to flip a tractor over backwards? I know the "wheelie bars" are there to prevent this by breaking traction, but I've seen such varying degrees of workmanship and geometry it certainly seems possible that accidents happen once in a while.

5. are there general rules for this stuff? Like hitch height, ballast amounts, how high the front wheels can come off the ground, etc.

6. With all the weight used and the low pressure in the tires, do the tires ever slip on the beads?

7. anybody every break anything in the transaxles on stock setups? What is the weakest link? Seems like souped up engines would overtax transaxles easily.

8. What is the typical limiting factor on how much you can pull? Traction? Power? Belt Slippage? Seems like hydros would have an advantage here if anything BUT engine power was the limiting factor.

I have pulled plenty of heavy stuff with my tractors around here, but have never hooked to a sled and probably never will since it just isn't in my blood. But the whole spectacle kind of amazes me and I can see that many people live for this sort of thing.

Curious,

Steve

[DMESS 24]

Steve, send a PM to Deer Hunter if he doesn't chime in. I'm quite sure he could answer a few of your questions since he would tend to be our highest ranking resident puller. If anyone has seen the limitations of the Wheel Horse as far as pulling is concerned it's him! Wayne's been pulling a long time and has built quite a few top notch machines.

Here's the website for the organization he's involved with:

EGTP

Off the top of my head, I recall belt slippage being the factor in the high horsepower Wheel Horse machines. I also think Wayne was putting 60 or so HP through a Uni-Drive without issue (1 1/8" 8 pinnion). I know he mentioned his latest creation having wheel speed in the 26 MPH range, but that isn't a Uni-Drive!

The whole process intrigues me as well and I wouldn't mind piecing together a "stock class" machine myself. Maybe someday!

[BPjunk 184]

Steve ..... buddy the next time you and your dad see me at a show ..... jus' hang 'round till after dark as a I.ll set up a little class room session for ya'!

OK let's answer some of your questions ...

1) The force generated will depend on the size of the "pan" and weight being put apon it. The sleds I usaly pull weigh in at 3,500 and 5,000 pounds.

2) The speed going down the track depends on the gearing of the tractor and the horse power it has to pull the weigth. Here in Virgina we pull a 3-1/2 and 6 MPH class. Of course ya' know the Mighty Lawn Ranger Six Speed still has to use a parachute to slow down after a pull!

3) The data depends on what you want to know and how your set up BUT for a trophy the distance is what counts.

4) Er .. well Uh ... see the picture included with this post. And yeah them is my cowboy boots ya' see hangin' in the air.

5) All clubs have their set of rules to go by so all competitors have a equal chance. As for how far up the front wheels can go up refer back the picture mentioned in question 4.

6) I have run zero (0) PSI in the rear tires of the 633 diesel BEAST and have not spun the tires on the rim BUT these were new tires on just painted rims so there is a good seal. It can happen with but remember the weight pulling down on the rear of the tractor does provide a lot of extra force.

7) A stock three speed will handle 35hp if in good shape and the six/eight speed will take 55hp before things start to break ... I repete IF IN GOOD SHAPE! I have not ever broken any thing ...... well ecept maybe my pride a few times when a 11 year old beats me!

8) Traction is the biggest factor, even with pullin' my RJ-58 with a 3.6hp Clinton the engine has not bogged down ... at the end the tires just spin.

Keep in mind when I pull my tractor does not look like a rollin' Golds Gym with bar bell weights hangin' off in every direction so the pullin' will not hurt any thing. You can hang enough weight on a tractor to get tractor to out pull a coal train but eventuly sumtins gonna give.

Steve I do think that if you get the chance take one of your Wheel Horses to a garden tractor pull and give it a try ... knowing you I think you would enjoy giving it a try.

Wild Bill in Richmond, Va.

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[Deere Hunter 54]

Steve,

1.As far as the FORCE it takes, I have never thought about that or even know if anyone has tried to figure it out. I would imagine the required FORCE would change depending on which classes and tractors would be pulling the sled. As you go up in classes the speed of the box on the sled changes, so the drag of the pan would be greater for the higher horse power classes. It would also depend on how good of traction the tractor also has. Example: My stock WH 16 would require alot less force to move the sled than my Open Super Stock puller would, because of the weight and gearing change on the sled.

A very interesting question, but I doubt if anyone has the resources to try a FORCE SCALE on a sled once.

2. MPH would all depend on which classes are pulling also. Have seen stockers pull anything from a 1st gear to a 3rd gear depending on track conditions. They just installed an Agtronix detup on our sled this year. It does measure mph along with the distance. So far they have not played much with the MPH but we have seen as much as 17 MPH out of some tractors in the Open Super Stock class.

3.Like I mentioned above, we can measure speed or MPH. As far as the weight, sleds range anywhere from 3500 lbs up to almost 7000 lbs depending on the class pulling.

4. Have yet to see a tractor flip over backwards at a pull, but that is where the tech officials better be on the ball. I have seen some cheesy lookin setups at some pulls and have to question why they let them run. One accident could mean the end of fun for us all. I have seen several tractors actually roll over onto there side. The ones that have done so have all been modiefied where they are turning alot faster wheel speed. When you combine a fast wheel speed and a short wheel base, things happen real fast. I have had my super stock up on one rear tire before and it isnt fun. Lord knows what kept it right side up, it happened so fast.

5. Check out the website that D mentioned, I also have it linked at the bottom by my signature. There are different rules depending on what part of the country and who is puttin the pulls on. Mostly depends on where ya pull. Hitch height is normally around 10-11 inches in the stock classes with a 23x10.5 tire. Now if you run a 26x12 tire you usaully run a 13 inch hitch. Almost all modified classes run a 13 inch hitch with cut or pro pullin tires. Most rules i see say 2 feet is the most they want the front end off the ground. Where I pull we mainly run a 1050 lbs class for every class. Although I have pulled where they start at 800 lbs and go up to 1200 lbs.

6. Never had a tire slip myself but I have seen some tires slip and actually run off the rim from running to low a tire pressure.

7.I have broke the 10 pinion rears in my Raider before. So I switched them out and installed the 8 pinion setup and have not broke them since. I have put as much as 60 horsepower thru an 8-speed without any failure. I went thru the rear replacing any questionable gears, all bearings and a set of loader axles. Ran the tractor a year and a half without any problems. But you pull with one long enough it will eventually break. In fact I have seen more WH trans break this year than usaul. The first half of the season we pulled on a lot of bity tracks and it took there toll on all the WH's in the stock classes. The most severe was one broke the big main gear, breaking all the teeth off except for two. Also have seen 3 broken axles on several WH's in the stock class. Thankfully none of the failures have been on any of my tractors.

8. Traction is the number one thing you need to get down the track. But you also need enough power and have the tractor balanced to keep putting the power to the track. Example, if you let the front end come up to high you lose traction, but if it never comes up and is to nose heavy, you cant keep enough weight on the rear to keep traction. The right balance is when the front tires are just skimming the ground to maybe 3 or so inches off the ground. I just had a pull yesterday and I won the class with my open super stock. It carried the front end about 6 inches off the ground for over a 100 feet down the track. It was balanced just right, hooked up and put 20 feet over the second place tractor.

here is a pic from the pull on Sunday

As far as a belt slipping, I have always used the factory Toro belt in the stock class but for anything modified I use a gates BX series belt. I tried alot of different belts and the Gates BX is the best out there. It will handle coming off the line at 6500 rpm and not slip once the clutch is disengaged. The draw back to this belt. It hold so well that at the end of the pull I had to shut the tractor off to get it out of gear. The belt would get so hot and sticky it would not disengage. Ran the same belt all one season.

Hope I havent confused you any and answered your questions. If you have anymore just ask.

[BPjunk 184]

Uh Wayne .....

Now I did measure the distance from the ground to the bottom of the front tire while up on the wheelie bars of my 753 and came up with 17 inches ..... Sooooooo I'm still with in the legal limit of 2 feet (24 inches). Hummmmmm I jus' gonna have ta' change sumtin! :horseplay:

Ya' remember this sled? It's the one we pulled in Gratz, PA 2 years ago. And notice the 753 is still not on the wheelie bars yet.

Wild Bill in Richmond, Va.

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[Deere Hunter 54]

Bill,

reset em so ya can get em up this high. lol :horseplay:

[wh500special 2,055]

Wow! this topic sat sort of idle for a day and then what great responses came forth! Thanks.

I am going to chew on this stuff and do some snooping around for a while, but I know I will be adding more to this. Thanks for the great input so far.

You can probably see where I was going with the force and speed data...Horsepower. I've been wondering how much HP is actually generated by one of these little tractors and data from the pulling circuit would get me there. I'd guess around 5 HP at the wheels for a really stout stock unit, but will hafta piddle around a little more. Those wild super, super modifieds are another story of course...maybe 10.

Really, measuring the force would be quite simple and not terribly costly. Would merely require a load cell and some type of data acqusition unit. Standard civil engineering stuff. Surprised it isn't something that is regularly done. Aligning that data with the speed of the sled would be necessary too, but not really a big deal either.

Perhaps one day I'll give pulling a whirl, but it seems like these tractors are already sucking up an awful lot of my time and yet another 'use' for them is probably not what my wife has in mind for me...

Thanks guys. Gotta run tonight.

Steve

[Rod(NASNUT) 1]

:banghead: for all the info I am also thinking about a puller I have a 1971 Raider 12 that I could use would that be a good start I only wount to run stock class for now :banana: