kohler k301 valve tick

[JamesC-120 204]

I have a k301 that I just rebuilt and it had a quite tick so I figured it might be the valves so I adjusted them to the correct setting and the exhaust valve was to large and the intake was to small. Then I put it back together and it ticks twice as loud. I am confused can you guys help?

 

Thanks

[rmaynard 14,945]

Tappet clearance cold should be .008" for intake and .017" for exhaust. If they are adjusted properly, then I don't think that is the source of your tick.

[JamesC-120 204]

Then how come it got a lot louder when I adjusted them?

[TT-(Moderator) 1,129]

Did you have the piston on TDC of the compression stroke?

[rmaynard 14,945]

You said that you just rebuilt the engine. What all did you do? Did you do it yourself? Did you replace the valves or have them ground? Did you check to see that a valve seat may be loose? Did you have the valve guides measured to make sure that they weren't worn?

[wheeledhorseman 573]

I had a weird valve clearance issue on a K301 that I partially rebuilt that sounds similarish though my second attempt to set the clearances solved it.

 

I'd got a good K301 to replace a worn out one but it was a pull start so it involved transfering oil pan, engine plate, alternator, flywheel, starter etc across. I didn't change any of the internals but I did take the head off and valves out to inspect. Ended up replacing the exhaust valve for a new genuine Kohler one, lapping them in etc.

 

The engine was on the bench with the head still off when checked everything in the valve chest was back ok and set the clearances which I double checked and even turned the engine over by hand a few times before finally checking again. With the engine back in the tractor fired it up and got a very loud ticking, and I do mean loud, from the front. Took the cover off and measured - one was out, can't remember now which or by how much. Adjusted again this time in poor light and more awkward conditions. Started her up and perfect, no ticking and ran sweet as it has ever since.

 

I could only assume it had something to do with the automatic compression release system.

 

Did you check the clearances again after the second louder run once the engine was cold? Were they still correct?

 

Andy

[JamesC-120 204]

Well I look it apart again and they both measured right so I put them back to what they where before. When they where off. And the sound is quiet and it can only be heard at idle a little bit. Is it bad to run it with them not set right?

[TT-(Moderator) 1,129]

A small amount of ticking with solid lifters is normal, but you can certainly get in there and set them again.

There's a possibility it will quiet down some when parts heat up and expand- which is why the clearance is important (too tight and valves can burn)

I'd rather hear a little ticking than none at all.

The 2.8 V6 in my old '85 Ranger sounded like it had a bunch of industrial sewing machines under the hood.

[sorekiwi 761]

If the clearance is too tight you can burn a valve as it doesn't contact the seat correctly and seal the cylinder properly.

 

The fact that the noise changes as you adjust them points to it being a valve / tappet noise.

 

Sometimes with a used valve or a used lifter (If the ends of each haven't been reground square) you can end up with a surface with a ridge in it that makes it difficult to measure the clearance on with a feeler gauge.  Onan twins can trap you on this one.  From memory of the Kohler singles, I don't think its likely on a Kohler.

 

I work on 100 year old Automotive engines where the clearance is .002" on the intakes and .004 on the exhausts.  Its not uncommon to have to run thru the clearances 2 or 3 times to get them quiet, .001 too big and they're as noisy as hell.

[Fordiesel69 232]

Did you mix up the tappets by chance?  Sometimes they will "mate" to the cam lobes, and can be a pain if they are swapped.  The tappets themselves are indentical, but not after they have worn in.

[JamesC-120 204]

I did not mix them up. I am still hearing another noise that is quieter but is not constant which some people call the kohler knock and i don't know where it is coming from. I took a screw driver and put it on the engine and then on my ear to see if i could hear anything and i don't think that it is coming from the valves or the cranks. If somebody knows it would be great if you could help. 

 

Thanks

[Fordiesel69 232]

Then set the valves to factory, rotate the engine a few times and recheck.  Post a video and we will be able to hear what you are talking about.  Post it on youtube and refernce a link on here.

[wheeledhorseman 573]

A bit of background info would also be helpful. During the rebuild what parts did you renew and why? Were the parts OEM? What endfloats did you measure during the reassembly process etc.

 

Andy

[Anglo Traction 759]

Sounds like you've virtually eliminated the ticking from the Valves.

There is one other possibility that can cause this after checking the Clearances, which may not have been mentioned.

On the Valve Lifters, where the Valve Stem ends contact,  a small well or depression occurs in the top of the Lifters caused by wear ( I found this on mine),

When a Feeler Gauge is passed between the parts for checking, the Gauge Blade rests on the top of the Valve Lifter face and therefore cannot account for the depth of the worn depression.

So when you think you've checked for the right clearance, it is wider than you think (by the depth of the recess in the Lifter/Valve Stem) .

I had cleaned off the top of the Valve Lifters with a Grind Stone and polished them to a slight Crown.

 

Not saying yours are worn, but could be the cause, and something to check and rectify during a build if not replacing Lifters.

 

Sorry Sorekiwi , you had touched on this, I missed it         

Edited January 20, 2014 by Anglo Traction

[LFDRET 19]

Have you given any thought that it may be a a balance gear making the noise. I had a K301 rebuilt and the balance gear did not get shimmed right, it had a tick to it.  Was told not ot worry about it. Been 8 yrs now and is a main mower and have not had a problem

[rmaynard 14,945]

In another thread on the same subject, this member posted the same question about a ticking noise. On that thread the question was asked about balance gears and he said he has removed them. I am not sure why he has two threads going on the same subject.

[JamesC-120 204]

Sorry about starting two threads That as an accident. I have removed the balance gears so it is not them. I will soon set them to the correct settings and then take a video this week some time 

 

Thanks

[JamesC-120 204]

Well I found that their is a slight amount of play in the cam shaft gear and the crank gear and at the right rpm you can hear it because when it speeds up it goes away or if you put a load on it, it goes away. And their is no end play in the cam shaft, so I think that is it, and it sounds like it is coming from that parts of the engine. Thanks for all of the ideas and help.