dtallon 320 #1 Posted December 31, 2013 Ran into a problem today I wondered if anyone else had encountered. I was trying to mount a snow plow on my C-120 and could not get the bolts through the brackets. It seems like the axle housing is too big for the bracket. The bracket and plow came off a Raider 12 and seemed to fit fine on that tractor. I noticed that the bolt spacing on this bracket is about 2 1/2" vs. 2 3/4" on an older, short-frame axle bracket I have. Are there different brackets for "small" and "large" axle housings? Sorry for no pics, I will get some tomorrow. Thanks, Dave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowtieguy 334 #2 Posted December 31, 2013 I am going to watch for answers to this Q----because I just removed the axle bracket off of my C-165 and the bolts were installed in a VERTICAL position with factory spacers (a 90 degree piece of metal) with a bolt hole on one side which was installed on ONE bolt but the other side of the angle went between the other mounting bolt and the axle housing....must have been more than one design for the rear axle bracket????.....funny how you are never too old to learn sumpin' new!!!!......any WH guru have a part number for this design? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,128 #3 Posted December 31, 2013 I can get you this much Frank: I'll have to do some hole spacing investigation when I get out to the shop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowtieguy 334 #4 Posted December 31, 2013 Wow....good suff Terry....that is exactly how it was mounted on the C-165 8 speed....first time I had ever seen item # 5.... I tried to put the bracket on my 312-H but there was not enough space to install the angle spacers...now I know why! Interesting info on the first "note"....where to mount hitch on hydrostat models with no mention about "angle spacers"....guess that explains why the (if required) note on item # 5......think I'll file this info for later reference too. I suppose there is a reason the angle spacers are to be installed to the REAR of the axle instead of the FRONT side? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,128 #5 Posted December 31, 2013 I don't know if they're behind the axle tube for ease of installation or because the torsional force is higher at the top rear corner of the housing. I have a few leftovers from an old dealer: 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowtieguy 334 #6 Posted December 31, 2013 Hey, I see about a dozen sets there...you are setting on a gold mine if you have that many hitch brackets to go with them`....or at least some "trading material" for your next good deal!! I would agree with the torque force theory...those WH engineers must have a fun time designing stuff about 50 years ago! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,128 #7 Posted December 31, 2013 It would be great to have the hitches, but I just have the spacers. That dealer must have installed a few hitches on hydro tractors - or the guy installing them didn't know what the spacers were for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMC RULES 36,945 #8 Posted December 31, 2013 Confirm...those spacers are intended for use on an 8 speed rear, not a hydro unit? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,128 #9 Posted December 31, 2013 Confirm...those spacers are intended for use on an 8 speed rear, not a hydro unit? Correct. I haven't made it to the shop to compare axle housing sizes, but will be checking Sundstrand vs. Eaton vs. gear drives. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtallon 320 #10 Posted January 1, 2014 Terry - Thanks for posting that info. It makes sense that the axle housings might not all be the same size, but I'm surprised they would make some axle brackets at a different spacing considering how universal most WH attachments are. The spacers seem like a better solution to make up the difference. This bracket was mounted with spacers on the Raider it came on, but they were flat, nearly identical to the straps on the top, just not as thick. I was able to get the bracket mounted yesterday, but had to substitute a 5/16" bolt for one 3/8" bolt on each side. Also got some wheel weights mounted. Just need to get the cutting edge bolted back on and the blade mounted to the frame. Should be ready to go for the 3-5" they are calling for us for tonight. Here are some pics. Shown are the three different style mounts I have, the different bolt spacing, and then the plow frame mounted on the tractor. Dave 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowtieguy 334 #11 Posted January 1, 2014 I like the one in the middle...bolts are installed on axle in horizonal position....the one on the left is like the one I mentioned in my post and it takes the 90 degree angle spacers when mounted on an 8 speed and bolts are installed in a vertical position ( I think I'm correct)....so it appears the axle housing is not exactly square....(got to go to shop and measure now...curosity is killing me). Good pics, Dave..I also like your wheel weights Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtallon 320 #12 Posted January 3, 2014 bowtieguy - The rear weights are off of a Montgomery Wards. They are 63 lbs ea, so really help with the traction. The fronts are wheel horse weights. I'm sure they help but I think I would be better off with some tri-ribs or ag tread tires instead of the trailer tires that are on there. Got to play in the snow a little tonight after work. The tractor did pretty well, but I need to polish up the blade and get the rust off so it slides better and I don't have so much carry-back. It ran like a champ though. Pretty good to go from sitting outside in a tornado to ready to push snow in just 6 weeks. Now that I've had my fun in the snow, I'm ready for things to warm up so we can make some headway on fixing the house. Dave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chazm 412 #13 Posted January 3, 2014 Having fun & Getter done in the snow Dave Chasm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stigian 1,234 #14 Posted January 3, 2014 Here are some pics. Shown are the three different style mounts I have, the different bolt spacing, and then the plow frame mounted on the tractor. Dave What an interesting thread, thanks for posting it up. Could you tell me which models the middle hitch in your photo is for please? Is it a GT-14 hitch? Thanks Ian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,128 #15 Posted January 3, 2014 The middle and right hitches are technically the same, but the one on the right has had a latch improvisation. They were used with the '63 to '69 blades with the true A frame that mounted "inside" the hitch bracket. The mounting pin on those blades protrudes beyond the outside of the frame. Example: The GT-14 rear hitch is extremely similar, but I think they had the top corner(s) beveled to clear the hydro motor. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc724 924 #16 Posted January 3, 2014 Those little angle brackets are only used for the left most picture in Dave's post. If you download the snow plow owners from the "manuals" section of RS, it will show you how to position the angle brackets. Also the brackets, as I recall, are only to take up some space between the vertical bolts and the transaxle housing. As Terry has stated, there is also a note in the owners manual that the brackets are only for 8 speed transaxles. Why are they (the transaxle size) different, when the axles are the same size? Probably "it seemed like a good idea at the time". I worked in engineering for 30 years and one thing I learned is while many design decisions are thoughtfully made, many more are left to the discretion of the draftsman and then they get perpetuated on each subsequent design. By then, it is too late/costly to change the tooling so a "quick fix" is implemented. This is what makes working on machines that were designed in the 50's 60's and 70's so interesting. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtallon 320 #17 Posted January 4, 2014 For what it's worth, the middle hitch is off my 854 (short frame), and I'm pretty sure it was original. The one on the right came off a Bronco 14 that had a 63-ish short-frame blade extended to fit it. I thought maybe the hitch was just a little older style, but looks like it was modified as well. The one on the left with the narrower bolt spacing was off a '68 Raider 12. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
