Altenator size?

[Chat6155 3]

Hopeing to tap some of the wealth of knowledge from some Kohler experts on the art of chasing a spark.   Recently aquired my first Kohler for a teardown / rebuild.   It's a 1984 K301.   When I removed the flywheel, found this for the altenator.   Would like to know the following;

 

a.  Amp size?

b.  Are the 6 coils for charging and the 4 for lighting?

c.  In the 2nd picture, theres a slot in the head of the armature [a bit hard to see for the dirt].   Any significance [the slot,

     not the dirt!]?

d.  Resistance readings for continunity check?

e.  When I remove it from the bearing plate, are there alignment pins / slots for reassembly or should I matchmark it

     before removing?

 

And, now for the probably really dumb question; would adding a 2nd rack of 6 armatures in the vacant area boost [double?] the altenator output?

 

Thanks much in advance.

[ARK 9]

Picture is not too clear for me, assumption on my part frequency of rotating device is higher with more pole faces so the 6 poles may be lighting and charging the 4 poles.  Look at the wires on the coils, can you tell which is thicker 4 poles or 6.  Air gap at pole faces, are they the same for all?  Can you tell if the group of 4 seems more/less used than the group of 6?  Can you see the out put wires, where do they go, are one set bigger than the other.  Try to follow the output wires, if they are indeed separate where they go should help you with what they do.

 

Generally with multi function AC generators the greater pole face - higher frequency.  More frequency cleaner the DC and no visible pulsations with lights and coil operations.  On the other hand generation feed to a battery can be pulsating DC via fewer pole faces because the DC battery also acts like a DC condenser or capacitor

 

Do you have a manual fot this unit see if ratings are in it.

 

Charging amps are usually constant so can be lower, lights, ignition and ancillary needs can be higher in amps.

 

Again these are my thoughts without touching, seeing the unit.

 

There are no firm rules to ampacity, wire size with manufacturers as there is with house wiring for example.  What 1 maker does is not always the same as what another does…but if they respond to their customers they will change things for the better.

 

Any information that you can provide will help!

[Chat6155 3]

Hi Ark, and thanks for the reply.

 

I did a search and came up with the following info on a B&S site; it is indeed a dual altenator.   The 4 coils are AC for lights and light brightness is dependant on engine rpm.   The 6 coils run through a single diode for pulsed DC to charge the battery.   In this configuration, using the lights do not affect [take away] from battery top off after cranking the starter to bring the engine to life.

 

I have absolutely no paperwork / manuals for the engine [1984 K301].   While picking up a snow blower from an aquantiance I met here on RS, he was parting out an entire 312-8 because the PO to him had been a bit tardy checking the oil and the con rod decided it would rather be a 5 piece than a 2 piece.   The engine was complete, down to all the cooling tin.   Having never rebuilt a Kohler, I got the entire engine from him and am rebuilding it just for the learning experience [re: entainment value]. 

 

During engine reassembly, I've decided to run both the altenators through their own full wave rectifiers to give as pure a DC output as I can.   The engine has no 'destination equipment' to go on, so, during the break-in run, I'm planning on connecting 4 to 6 old automotive headlights that each have their own individual on/off switch and calibrated analog DC volt and amp guages to see just how much each alt puts out at different rpm's.

 

I am, however, still in a quandry about the grove in the one armature head on the 4 coil group.

 

Here are some pics after it spent a few hours in the heated ultrasonic cleaner [yes, I cracked the bearing plate attempting to install the flywheel bearing. A tough lesson to learn, but I'll never break another one]...

[cleathumphrey 0]

The 341 in my Ford has the coils all the way around and I think it has a 10 amp charge rating.

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

Some random thoughts

 

The other half of the capacity calculation is determined by the number / strength of the magnets on the flywheel.

 

A picture of the magnets in your flywheel may add additional information to allow a ore educated guess on the capacity of the charge coils.

 

Even a full wave rectifier will not give you "pure" DC. The output of a regulator / rectifier or a full wave bridge will still be a pulsed DC waveform. If you add a lead acid battery to the output of the RR or full wave bridge, the battery will act as a very large capacitor and will smooth out the pulsed waveform to ALMOST "pure" DC.

 

A true test of the charge capacity of the stator can be found by draining the staring battery down to 10.0 volts and monitoring the charge current going into the battery from the stator. Stator output less then 13.8 volts will not fully charge a lead acid battery properly. If you do the lamp test, the stator current output will only be useful until the stator voltage drops below 13.8 volts. Your multimeter may give you odd / unpredictable measurements reading pulsed dc into an inductive lamp load.

 

The lighting stator wiring is a different story. If you find the brightness of the headlights to be acceptable for your use when the stator voltage is less then 12 volts, then you may be able to squeeze a bit more current from the stator.

 

Google INDUCTIVE REACTANCE if you are into electronics. Each stator pole is an inductor.

 

Since the stator is actually an AC generator, the inductive reactance value of the stator wires to AC current flow will tend to allow the stator to protect itself from excessive current demands (the more current demanded from the stator the larger the voltage drop within the stator - at some point a max current will be encountered due to the stator wire resistance / reactance).

 

The small notch in one of the stator poles will have no real world performance effect. It's probably there as an orientation mark in some other system. For the purpose of mounting the stator on a Kohler engine. orient the stator to allow convenient wiring dress from the stator thru the bearing plate. You can easily see if you fasten the stator in a different orientation, the wiring will not leave the stator and proceed directly to the hole in the bearing plate. 

Edited November 7, 2013 by Save Old Iron

[ARK 9]

More amps?

Gap between pole faces and magnet smaller

Pole faces larger ( the 3rd pole face is a dual pole face, by design or as a marker?)

Greater RPM (frequency ups but rectification nullifies the frequency, and you need DC)

Incandescent lights work with AC or DC (effective voltage so that each produces the same heat)

Wire size, looks like the 4 coil section has a bigger wire size, but to get more amps the wire insulation should be made better, epoxy, another 20%)

Make certain the poles are snug, no looseness, no shifting

Verify every joint, every spade, ring, or slide connector within is tight, clean

Test the output before and after any R/R and make certain any joints are clean and tight

End use, whether lights, battery, any device have correct wire size, good insulation, clean and tight joints, battery must have proper electrolyte level and hydrometer test the electrolyte, clean and tight terminals, no oxide, rust, grease, cables big enough for amperage

Now maintain that good condition

Secure that battery

Also secure any electrical device using power from that combo alt and battery

[flyovrcntry 115]

:eusa-think:  HUH?

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

:eusa-think:  HUH?

Yep......  all for a 3amp unregulated / 70 watt lighting circuit stator.

 

Replace it with a 237878-S stator and matching 15amp rectifier/regulator and enjoy the power!   

[30years 0]

Terry et al,

I've a 414-8 year 1986?  Kohler K321s 60440. It has 3amp charging system. I'd like to change to 10 or 15 amp rectifier box type. 

If I use the 237878-s stator and 15a rect. as you mention, do I need to change flywheel also?

What pieces are required for this conversion and part numbers. What year and model engines have compatible pieces? In other words, Help!

If anyone has a complete setup for sale let me know.

Thanks

Rich

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

The flywheel should be the same. (full ring of six magnets)

You'll need the stator and mounting screws along with the matching rectifier/regulator.

 

The "B+" output terminal on the R/R needs connected to the "R" terminal on the ignition switch. (use existing wire to stator)

The headlight switch will need a fused power feed from the "A" terminal on the ignition switch.

[30years 0]

Thanks for the info.

One more dumb question. What is part number of rectifier/regulator that is compatible with the 237878-s  stator?

Thanks again

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

This one (or equivalent) will work:

 

http://tewarehouse.com/7-01696