Not charging

[flyovrcntry 115]

I have a Briggs v-twin,when I check the DC voltage coming out of the reg when disconnected it reads 17-18v.When I connect the wire  to the ignition and hook the meter to the battery it reads 12.6 v.I have disconnected the lead at the ignition and get 17-18 v.I plugged it in to the ignition and stuck a probe in the connector at the ignition and only get 12.6 volts at any rpm.By the way all the measurments I stated are at full throttle.

I am not good at electrical systems so keep it basic if you would.

My brain is hurting  LOL

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,392]

Are you sure you have a voltage regulator? Some of these have just a rectifier with no regulation.

 

Garry

[meadowfield 2,712]

it sounds like it is regulating and charging, but possibly not at a high enough voltage. 

 

What is the problem?  What you are reading sounds ok but for the battery charge voltage being a little low - but then the battery might be flat...

 

mark

[flyovrcntry 115]

OK as I said ,I'm not experienced at electrical.I should have stated in my post that my batterygoes dead after mowing the yard a few times.After I charge it,it's fine.When this origonaly happened I thought it was the battery as it was pretty old,so I replaced the battery.

And no I don't know if it's a reg or rec,it has two yellow wires giong in and one red one coming out.

I don't know what you mean by the battery being flat.From what I've read I thought at full throttle I should be getting more voltage than 12.6 dc

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

If it looks like this:

 

 

Then it's a regulator.

 

And when the engine is running at higher speed, you should see at LEAST 13.5V on the red B+ lead.

 

If you've got adequate voltage from the stator, and nothing happening at the red lead, it's a pretty good bet that replacing the regulator will fix you up.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Jeff-C175

[meadowfield 2,712]

my guess is that 12.6V is the nominal battery voltage then and it just isn't charging. Jeff is more than correct that it's the regulator (or a bad earth)

[flyovrcntry 115]

Got to thinking about it this morning ,after reading some other threads and decided to clean all the connections and use some dielectric grease on them.After doing this I have a reading of 13.25 volts,is this enough to keep the battery up, or do you think the reg is bad?

And meadowfield,I'm just not accustomed to your terms,took me a bit to figure out what earth meant.And by a flat battery,does that mean a dead battery?

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

Them fellers across the pond have some words that seem strange to us yanks...  heck, they even have bonnets and wings on their cars and tractors! 

 

13.25 is a bit on the low side, but it could indicate the battery is discharged and is actually taking a good charge.

 

As the battery gets closer to full charge, the voltage will rise.

 

You'll even see this if you measure the battery voltage when you hook up your big charger to it.  If the battery is discharged, the volts will start out lower and the amps higher.  As the battery becomes charged, the amps will drop and the volts will rise.

 

What does your ammeter read (if your machine has one?)

[meadowfield 2,712]

Ha, yes...

Despite working in the US for 6 months and still using the terms cell phone and gas, I didn't think.

Flat battery = dead battery

Earth = ground (a wheel horse is a negative earth system to us Europeans)

:D

[flyovrcntry 115]

I have heard it said that one day we will adopt the english language.  

Yes,my battery could be low since I have been starting it a lot while testing.I am going to charge it and see what happens.

Don't have an ampmeter but I'm going to try to hookone up just out  of curiosity.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

[flyovrcntry 115]

 I got   a reading of 3 amps when I put the multimeter in at the dc wire coming out of the reg.I still get 17.8 dc volts coming out of the regulator,and 13.7 at the battery at full throttle and 12.7 when idleing or engine off.

Does this mean the reg is bad?

I cleaned all the connections and cables ,and used dielectric grease on things,they were very dirty.It seemed like some kind of grease  or something on the wires at the ignition.I don't know how it worked,black and sticky goo,,like dirty grease.

Meadowfield,I hope I didn't offend you,I have a weird  sense of humor.

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

 

I got   a reading of 3 amps when I put the multimeter in at the dc wire coming out of the reg

 

When using the amps scale on a multimeter, one must put the meter IN SERIES with the wire, meaning the wire must be removed from the B+ terminal on the regulator and one lead of the meter connects to the B+ terminal and the other lead connects to the wire.

 

Tell us exactly how you measured the amps with the meter.

 

 

I still get 17.8 dc volts coming out of the regulator,and 13.7 at the battery at full throttle

 

Something is wrong...  There should be a direct connection from the B+ terminal on the regulator to the battery, therefore the voltage should be the SAME. 

 

At this point you need to tell us what machine you are working on so we can consult the wiring diagram to help any further.

 

 

some kind of grease  or something on the wires at the ignition

 

I'm thinking that it may be the grease they use inside the switch when they assemble it.  I recently dissected an ignition switch and was amazed how the thing could have worked at all with all that grease crud inside of it.  Yours is probably 'leaching' out.  I bet the switch has bad connection inside and this caused it to get hot and the heat melted the grease and it's coming out onto the terminals.

 

 

I don't know how it worked

 

But....... it didn't!  or at least it doesn't... now...

[flyovrcntry 115]

Jeff,I have the reg you show in your previous post.I pulled apart the red connection and put the red  probe to the end going to the reg and the black probe  going to the end going to the ignition.Set the meter on dc amps

The tractor is a Simplicity Broadmoor,I will have to get the model number tomorrow.

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

OK, that sounds right... but maybe I'm misunderstanding something else.

 

You say you measure 17.8 coming out of the regulator... is this with the red wired disconnected?  If so, that's not a good test.  With the red wire disconnected, it's very possible that 17.8 with no connection is correct.

 

Perhaps the Briggs charging system is only a 3 Amp system?  Then everything you are seeing may be OK.

 

I thought this was on a WH tractor, I'm not at all familiar with Simplicity.  I do have that same engine on a pressure washer, but have never measured the voltage output of the regulator.

[flyovrcntry 115]

Thats right thats with the red wire disconnected,with it connected,i get a reading of 13.7 or so anyplace I probe a connection.

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

That might be OK then.  13.7 will charge the battery.  And if the battery already has a decent charge, it might not charge higher than 3 Amps.  Only when the battery is discharged might it go higher.

 

I just did some googling and found this Briggs&Stratton PDF with tons of good info in it.  How to do all sorts of electrical tests, info on how charging systems work, etc...

 

One of the pages shows the regulator you have and says that style regulator is used with 10 and 16 amp systems.  I think the only way you will tell which you have is by the 'spec' number of the engine itself, or the simplicity books might say too...

 

Here's a link to the PDF, some nice Sunday reading!

 

http://www4.briggsandstratton.com/miscpdfs/RNT/alternator_replacement.pdf

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

 

 

You say you measure 17.8 coming out of the regulator... is this with the red wired disconnected?  If so, that's not a good test.  With the red wire disconnected, it's very possible that 17.8 with no connection is correct.

 

 

this reaction is normal

 

the red wire is used to deliver a charge to the battery AND sense the battery charge.

if you remove the red wire from the battery, the reg "sees" a dead battery and jacks up the output to maximum to charge the "dead" battery as quickly as possible.

 

this is the same action that generates a warning not to disconnect a car battery from the electrical system while the car is running - the alternator will go to full voltage ad possibly cause damage to voltage sensitive electronics

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

 

warning not to disconnect a car battery from the electrical system while the car is running - the alternator will go to full voltage ad possibly cause damage to voltage sensitive electronics

 

Yes... since disconnecting the battery still leaves all the 'other' components, computers, radios, lights, etc etc still connected to the alternator output. 

 

Our tractors are not wired in that fashion of course... but...

 

While this may (or may not) also apply to the electronics in the voltage regulators on our tractors, it should be considered "not good practice" to do so.

 

I would like to think that the components in the regulator would be rated robustly enough for open circuit operation, it still is probably not a good idea.  Nothing is to be learned from that action anyway, so why do it?

 

I am not 100% convinced that the failure of the regulator on my WH was not caused by an intermittent ignition switch, which would for all intents and purposes disconnect the regulator from the battery when it was 'acting up'.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Jeff-C175

[flyovrcntry 115]

Thanks for the help,and that pdf file,I saved that.At least now I feel I can tell if a system is charging.

I think my problem has been dirty connections.When I started this topic all I got at full throttle was 12.6 volts,now I am getting better than 13.5 all the time.

Again thanks everyone for the help.