key switch problems

[bulldog323 0]

Hello all, I have a 1986 417-A I had to replace a key switch last year but it did not work then, so I buckled down this year and I went completely through the wiring diagram wire by wire and checked every safety switch and all wires and switches are good. The problem that is troubling me is the key switch has all the letters  next to the tabs where to attach the wires, but the wiring diagram only states wire #1 or wire #2 and so on, does anyone know where each wire goes?  I did the best I could but right now I turn the switch to accy and the voltmeter goes to 12 volts but when I try to start it the volt meter goes directly to the left less than 8 volts like there is a direct short and does not even crank, but if I leave the key switch on and jumper the solenoid it starts right up with no problem. I have replaced the solenoid but still no help. Thanks for any help

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KC9KAS 4,744]

 

Check out this wiring diagram:

 

Oh,

Edited August 18, 2013 by KC9KAS

[bulldog323 0]

I already have that wiring diagram in my hand but I still cannot figure out the key switch wiring, can you help me out as to which one goes on to the labeled switch, I got the "B" for battery, and I think I got the one for the rectifier. I put the yellow and orange on the "S" for start. and the Tan to "I" for ignition. and the last wire I put on "A" for  accy. Now I get is the 12 volts on the guage but when I go to start position the voltage guage doesn't even twitch. its like its dead. but I can still jump across the solenoid and it starts.

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

If I'm not mistaken, when you turn the key to START, the voltmeter should go to ZERO.  The key switch drops the accessory circuit when turned to the start position, and the voltmeter is part of the accessory circuit.

 

 

Now I get is the 12 volts on the guage but when I go to start position the voltage guage doesn't even twitch. its like its dead

 

You mean that the voltmeter drops to zero?  That sounds normal to me.

 

So after you rewired it, the voltmeter no longer drops to EIGHT volts, but rather to ZERO?  Is that what you are saying?  I think that's OK.

 

How did you test the safety switches?  The PTO switch and the PEDAL switch are in the circuit to the trigger wire on the solenoid.

 

Do you have a multimeter and know how to use it?

Edited August 20, 2013 by Jeffpicks

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

On your machine, does the trigger wire from the solenoid go directly to the pedal switch?  OR, does it take a detour through another relay first?

 

I'm looking at the 417 schematic that was posted, and comparing it to an 86 416 ... the 416 schematic shows an extra relay in the circuit.

[bulldog323 0]

Hi Jeffpicks,

 

Yes the voltmeter goes to zero when I try to start it, you are correct.  When I checked all the wiring the other day I cked the wire that comes from the brake switch to the start solenoid and it ohms out perfect. I also disconnected the wires from the brake switch and cked the switch individually and it operated correctly. I also cked all the other safety switches by removing the wires and making sure they operated with the ohm meter and they all did. One question I have is when I hook up the solenoid, does it matter which side has the battery going to it, because I have tried it both ways and still the same result.  Another thought I had I did try it sitting on the seat and holding the brake pedal down and still same result. I am starting to think my solenoid it bad?  I appreciate the help

oh yea there are no relay's in this 417, its as straight forward as you can get.

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

 

I am starting to think my solenoid it bad?

 

You said you replaced the solenoid though?  with a new one? or at least known to be good?

 

Set your meter on volts, negative lead to ground, positive lead to the trigger on the solenoid and turn key to start.

You should see battery voltage at that terminal... do you?

 

Shouldn't make any diff with the big cables on the solenoid.

 

Solenoid only has one small terminal, correct?

 

If so, is solenoid well grounded to chassis?

[bulldog323 0]

hey all,

 

the problem has been solved. Let me tell you what fixed it. There were 2 problems, the first was the start solenoid that I had bought brand new was bad, I found this problem by removing the ignition wire from the key switch and jumper the key switch directly to the solenoid by doing this it takes out all the safety switches. When I tried to start it the solenoid would make a clunk sound but would not start. I tapped on the solenoid and it started. So problem 1 solved with a new solenoid. Problem 2 I found by putting a jumper on each safety switch 1 at a time until I found the brake pedal switch was the culprit. I removed the pedal switch and cleaned the contacts and now the WHEEL HORSE is alive once again.  

 

Thanks for all your help everyone