New Horse on the Hitch'n Post

[Teddy da Bear 11]

Some weeks ago. I found this ad for a wheel horse on our Rural King wall. When I pointed the ad out excitedly to my wife....she just rolled her eyes. (why do they do that?)

She and I went to look at it and it was in showroom shape. Some minor flaws....no big deal. I wasn't really interested in this particular model. Owner called it an A-100.......turned out to be a 1974 800 Ranger.

Original Lauson engine I believe.

It ran well when he showed it to us. I let the deal go and he sold it to another gentleman who when receiving it....it promptly broke down. No spark.

So they put points and condenser in it. Still no spark. Man did not want to fool with it anymore so original owner took it back. I called last week and he told me all of this. Told me he would knock $50 off the asking price....so I bought it.

Now p.o. was under the impression this was a B&S motor. Apparently not. It is suppose to be a Lauson 8hp. electric start. i cannot find any numbers on the engine itself. The sticker is gone off of the tin. Looks exactly like the illustration on partstree.com. But website only references a "Toro" number and not a Lauson number.

Can anyone help me out here? I do not know how the p.o. got parts for it without a number. He did provide me with a motor number on the b.o.s.

VM-80 1500564 & ser. #4078R (It looks like an R or a K). Toro reference number is 103695 (parts tree).

I would appreciate any help in sorting this engine out.

Here is a pic of the tractor.....looks like it shrunk in the wash compared to the Raider 10....lol

Attached Image

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,608]

If it's truly a Ranger 800, then the engine would be a V80 8 hp Tecumseh. Joel probably could identify it better. If it's a A-100 then it would be a 10 hp Briggs. Depending of course if it's the original engine. What is the model number of the tractor itself?

[Teddy da Bear 11]

Model of tractor is 1-0280 it checks out on Toro site and parts tree as a Ranger 800

If you look at the drawing and item numbers on partstree......it refers to a Lauson engine. I was told that Lauson and Tecumseh were the same (buy out?)

[Buzz 502]

Here's the specs from Toro, it's supposed to have a Tecumseh VM80. Easy to mistake a V for a U on the ID plate

Model # Serial Year Product Name

1-0280 None - None 1974 A-800 Ranger

Feature List Model Number 1-0280

Model Year 1974

Beginning Serial # None

Ending Serial # None

Product Name A-800 Ranger

Product Brand Wheel Horse

Product Type Riding Products

Product Series Lawn Tractor, A Series

Swath 32 inch

Discharge Side

Engine/Motor Manufacturer Tecumseh

Engine/Motor Model # VM80-150056A

Engine/Motor Size # 8 hp

Engine/Motor Type 4 Cycle

Engine Starter Electric

Transmission Manufacturer Peerless

Transmission Model # 648

Transmission Speed 3 Speed

Transmission Type Gear

Here's a link to a manual for the engine:

http://toprake.com/index.php?module=docume...e&JAS_File_id=2

And the transmission:

http://toprake.com/index.php?module=docume...e&JAS_File_id=7

Have fun, looks in good condition. Maybe using Briggs parts on a Tecumseh engine could be one of the problems it has B)

[Teddy da Bear 11]

Thanks Buzz....it was indeed a "V". The p.o. had bad handwriting.

I know now why the p.o. did not finish fixing the engine!!!

The coil is N.L.A. But the folks (Roger) of C&C of south bend knew how to cross reference the coil with another part number. He was able to get me a coil he said would work.

So tomarow we will see!

I also question the points gap this other guy worked on.

Does anyone have that dimension or is it included in that engine manual you provided me?

Thanks again.

[Teddy da Bear 11]

Well the scales are tipping to the "bad luck" side.

I put in the new coil. Still no spark.

I am just no mechanic. There is too much (for me) to deal with especially on electrical problems.

I found two more things. This engine has a magneto. Can that have gone bad? Out of adjustment? There are so many apparent variables. Points and condenser were replaced by p.o. Maybe he did the coil too? I found the flywheel came off a bit too easily. Did he gap the points correctly? What is the gap for these points? Where are the points located??

Also found fuse block and no fuses.......hmmmmmmm

Very discouraging..

[Teddy da Bear 11]

Well I found out the where the points were located. It was under the aluminum cover plate that said "Ezy Start" Magneto.

I was told by Roger at C&C that the points gap should be 0.020".

I am still getting no spark.

I am uncertain of the position of the stator. But even if it were off a bit it seems like I would get some kind of spark.

Something I am missing here....but I do not know what. B)

[Jim_M 179]

I would look for a wire rubbed through somewhere or possibly even a bad ignition switch. If all the ignition parts are new or at least good you may be grounded out somewhere.

These engines shut off by grounding the magneto, if a wire is rubbed through or the switch is bad you would be grounded all the time.

[combatmp29r 27]

I agree with Jim. Start by checking all your wiring out. An ohm meter of some sort will help. Oh and T-MO like Buzz posted its an A-800 ranger, not a 800 Ranger both verts, but thats the only thing in common. Althought some of the later 800s from 73 had a VM80. I'm sure that comes back to the use whats available and don't spend to much policy. B)

[Teddy da Bear 11]

I have a multi-meter with ohms on it.

I am not technically inclined with this electrical stuff.

But it sure sounds like you know it inside and out!

Don't lose sighr of my postings......lol

I can just tell you what I know now. The engine cranks and there is zero voltage at the spark plug. Replaced coil and p.o. said he replaced points and condensor. He did give me the old parts. I put the stator back as close as I could to what seemed like the original marks. I also gapped the points to 0.020".

I was thinking about the switch too.

How exactly do I test it and what terminal? It appears to be original.

thanks...

[HorseFixer 2,013]

Sounds like its broke

Duke

[Teddy da Bear 11]

Well I got no response on how to test my switch.

So I went ahead and measured the voltage on the common terminal

on the side of the points/magneto. It measured 0.30 volts with the key

on and in the start position. The battery has plenty of "oomph" as it turns

the starter nicely. But, this voltage readout does not seem enough to perform

properly on the magneto/points terminal.

B)

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

Mike,

I won't get in to the "Magnetos 101" course on here because it would take up 10 pages, but I will say that a magneto is self sufficient - meaning that it generates it's own power. (think of an old push mower - no battery there, right?)

Spark at the plug is created by the magnet in the flywheel passing by the fixed poles of the armature, which in turn creates electricity in the primary winding of the coil (many turns of tiny enameled copper wire). When the breaker points open, this electrical field collapses - causing a surge of high voltage in the secondary winding of the coil (fewer turns of larger copper wire). The spark plug is connected to the secondary winding through a high-tension lead. The coil is essentially a transformer.

The electric starter, charging coil (alternator), and battery are not in any way related to the ignition system, and the only function of the key switch is to ground (short out) the primary winding. Unhook the single wire leading from the terminal (where the condenser wire is fastened) to the ignition switch. If all of the other components are functioning properly, you will have spark.

The switch should show continuity between the metal body and the "M" terminal when in the off position, and it should be "open" when the key is in the run and start position.

You might want to check your local library or bookstore for some small engine repair manuals. (Clymer, Haynes, and Chilton all have some good ones.)

[Teddy da Bear 11]

I tried to do what you had asked.

I removed the lead for the condenser. Replaced the flywheel. Put my multimeter on the spark plug and turned the key. No spark and now no multimeter.

I do not know what happened to it. It does not work on any settings.....sigh... B)

[Teddy da Bear 11]

I may have to and get it out of my misery.

Can we make a smiley that shows a horse getting shot??? :whistle:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

You have to leave the condenser lead hooked up or you won't have spark.

It's sounds to me like your multimeter may have found some though. (that's a little too much voltage for any small meter - like 20K volts! If it has a fuse, check it.)

Stick a good spark plug in the end of the plug wire and ground it against one of the head bolts. Turn the engine over and see if you have spark. (providing the kill wire isn't grounding it out.)

[Teddy da Bear 11]

The Ranger is going to the repair shop.

I found a guy who seems really nice..... So hope he can figure it out.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,608]

Mike,

I know it's probably not what you wanted to do, but sometimes we have to realize our limits. Myself, I'm not mechanic nor do I understand the complexities of electrical components, so I would have eventually took it someplace or to someone who knew more than I. This site and others are a wealth of information, but unfortunately we, as individuals, have limitations. :banghead:

[Teddy da Bear 11]

Well... I got my A-800 Ranger back yesterday.

My new engine guy only charged me $40! He rewired it.... He said the P.O. had almost all the wires hooked up wrong. He replaced a jet on the carburator, Said that it had one on there that did not belong. He adjusted the brake and clutch.

He timed the engine and did some troubleshooting on the recharging system. Apprently the diodes are no longer available on the diode block. Sounds like there is an alternative available.

He said there is a lot of build up in the carb of old gas residue.

I put some seafoam in to the tank and started it. It did not want to run very strong. I drove it out of the garage and engaged the mower deck. Barely had the strength to mow grass. I throttled up and it started to sputter and bang......so I shut it back down. Then it ran stronger....and stronger..... I put the throttle all the way down, but it is still running fast. Wayyyy too fast. Something must be out of adjustment on the throttle linkage.

But running is better than no running at all! :banana: