Motor Head110 7 #1 Posted April 13, 2013 The K-181 on my 856 (Willy) is smoking bad... BUT its only when you thottle up. I had just put new rings in it and lapped the valves less then 6 months ago. I just cant figure out what Willy has come down with. Anyone have any ideas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WH nut 553 #2 Posted April 13, 2013 The K-181 on my 856 (Willy) is smoking bad... BUT its only when you thottle up. I had just put new rings in it and lapped the valves less then 6 months ago. I just cant figure out what Willy has come down with. Anyone have any ideas? How were the valve guides, and did you measure the cylinder bore and make sure that was up to snuff, or did you just slap rings in it? The K-181 on my 856 (Willy) is smoking bad... BUT its only when you thottle up. I had just put new rings in it and lapped the valves less then 6 months ago. I just cant figure out what Willy has come down with. Anyone have any ideas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 16,343 #3 Posted April 13, 2013 Black smoke or gray? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor Head110 7 #4 Posted April 13, 2013 We did measure the bore when we did it. It was within wear limits. The valve guides seemed to be fine. Who knows, with my luck I probally screwed somthin up! Its weird. You will start it once and it will be black. Then kill it and start it again and it will be gray. I was even getting white smoke for a while! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WH nut 553 #5 Posted April 13, 2013 We did measure the bore when we did it. It was within wear limits. The valve guides seemed to be fine. Who knows, with my luck I probally screwed somthin up! Its weird. You will start it once and it will be black. Then kill it and start it again and it will be gray. I was even getting white smoke for a while! Only when you snap the throttle, or all the time its throttled up? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor Head110 7 #6 Posted April 13, 2013 It does it BAD when throttling but it still does it all the time(just a bit less). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WH nut 553 #7 Posted April 13, 2013 It does it BAD when throttling but it still does it all the time(just a bit less). I would first check the breather, then pop the head and see how much the valve wiggle side to side, then make sure the ring gaps are staggered Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smoreau 658 #8 Posted April 13, 2013 What king of rings did you use? I did one for my 875 with chrome molly rings and they have never seated. I should have never tried them and stuck with the standard cast rings. Engine runs fine, but smokes like a chimney. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor Head110 7 #9 Posted April 13, 2013 I will check the breather and valves on sunday. I used kohler standerd rings for a K181 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor Head110 7 #10 Posted April 13, 2013 I am also going to the parts store tonight. Is there anything i may need? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WH nut 553 #11 Posted April 13, 2013 I am also going to the parts store tonight. Is there anything i may need? Breather gaskets and head gasket if you pop the head. When you ringed it, did you hone it by chance? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor Head110 7 #12 Posted April 13, 2013 no we didnt hone it, just scratched up the cylinder a bit. (so it was smothed) Though I do remember the cylinder being slightly oval shaped, but I dont think it was enough to efect it in any way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WH nut 553 #13 Posted April 13, 2013 no we didnt hone it, just scratched up the cylinder a bit. (so it was smothed) Though I do remember the cylinder being slightly oval shaped, but I dont think it was enough to efect it in any way. An oval shaped bore will cause the problem. How much? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor Head110 7 #14 Posted April 14, 2013 i cant recall, i think it was pretty small like .007 thousanths, or mabey smaller Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor Head110 7 #15 Posted April 14, 2013 Would it matter what order you put the rings in? Obviosly the oil ring goes on top, but what about the others? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Kuhn 1,579 #16 Posted April 14, 2013 This is most likely not the problem...but my b80 somehow got water in the oil once and it was smoking pretty bad...I changed the oil and it smokes barely at all, or not at all now. But again...thats probably not whats wrong with yours. Jake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 16,343 #17 Posted April 14, 2013 Oil ring goes on bottom. Compression rings go on top with notches or bevels up or down according to the instructions that came with the rings. Sent from my MB520 using Tapatalk 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 43,899 #18 Posted April 14, 2013 Should have honed it at least. Oval cylinders are pretty normal to find. Even if in specs for should have been bored and piston fitted. If bore is oval good chance valve guides were worn enough to leak by also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor Head110 7 #19 Posted April 14, 2013 This is most likely not the problem...but my b80 somehow got water in the oil once and it was smoking pretty bad...I changed the oil and it smokes barely at all, or not at all now. But again...thats probably not whats wrong with yours. Jake Who knows it may be! I will change the oil too! Do you happen to know the oil capacity? Oil ring goes on bottom. Compression rings go on top with notches or bevels up or down according to the instructions that came with the rings. Sent from my MB520 using Tapatalk 2 Sorry, thats what I met!(Brain fart) It's been awhile since ive rebuilt it. I will post pics on sunday Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor Head110 7 #20 Posted April 14, 2013 I know this is a kinda stupid question after all this but does anyone think the motor may be running REALLY rich? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 16,343 #21 Posted April 14, 2013 That's why I asked what color the smoke is. Black smoke indicates too rich. Gray or white is burning oil. Sent from my MB520 using Tapatalk 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor Head110 7 #22 Posted April 14, 2013 thanks Bob! so its to rich AND burning oil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pacer 3,177 #23 Posted April 14, 2013 I know this is a kinda stupid question after all this but does anyone think the motor may be running REALLY rich? Actually when black and grey smoke and doing it when throttling up was mentioned, the first thing I thought of was to rich... Was/is it using oil?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Motor Head110 7 #24 Posted April 14, 2013 Yes it was, infact i added a bit of oil to it today BUT i made sure i didnt over fill it. (I have a tendencey to do that) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coadster32 793 #25 Posted April 14, 2013 I don't have the bore specs in front of me, but as a machinist....007 is alot. That truely is out of round quite a bit. I would think you'd have to run the crap out of it, to oval out the rings to match, and set right. .007 could be a size tolerance, but not an out-of-round tolerance. Not sure if something else is bad here, but this one isn't good. The ring gap should be staggered as stated. I think if your going thru quite a bit of oil, you'd see it dripping down the block by the breather if that was the problem. Seems like your pushing it out the exhaust in raw form. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
