C-165 spindles

[6wheeler 669]

I have a question. I am thinking of changing the front axle on my 165. I was thinking of putting a 520 axle on it because, I put suitcase weights on for plowing the garden and they are heavy. I already broke a spindle on my 120 which I would guess are about the same size as the 165. But I had a thought. Instead of that and being the spindles seem to be the weak point. I wonder if I could have my 165 axle machined and just put 520 spindles in it. Are the spindles on the swept forward 520 axle and the straight 520 axle the same size? Does this seem like a feasible idea? I like the 8 spd. for plowing and such (better gearing choices). I am going to put a pto driven live hydraulics system on it. So, it will not be for lawn duty any more.  Are the D series spindles any different than the C-series? Are the Blackhood spindles different than the older C series spindles? The spindle that broke, let go just under the flange that the axle casting sits on. So, I don't really see a way I could strengthen one in that spot on the spindle outside of using a larger one. I haven't seen any 520 8 spds. in my area for sale. I am open to other ideas. If anyone has any, I am listening. Thanks

[Sparky-(Admin) 23,249]

I wonder is the axle and not the spindle would be the weak point after you had the axle bored out.

Mike............

[Don1977 605]

I don't know how much weight you had on the front. I don't believe weight alone caused the spindle to brake at that location. Bad welding on the arm and hitting some solid with that wheel is more likely.

[leeave96 490]

Wheelhorse use to make some reinforced spindles for the 3-400 series tractors.  In '98 when I bought my 314-8, it was a hot topic on the older Yahoo forum.  I thought about getting a set, but never did.  I think the kit came with both spindles and new front tires/rims.  One thing you might consider is finding a front end complete out of a 520H, including wheels.  The swept forward axle, 1 inch axles and steering reduction are a nice touch.

 

With regard to plowing, I think if you set your plow correctly, front weights should be minimal if necessary at all.  The only weight I have on my tractor tires are front cast iron wheel weights.  I put them on mostly for a little extra traction when pushing snow and when using the rear bagger.

 

Good luck,

Bill

 

[baerpath 517]

Theres the loader front axle that used 1 inch spindles and different rims with better bearings.  Or the 520 front axle. I have both if you need them

For a plow tractor I wouldn't want gear reduction steering. But thats just me

[Wheel-N-It 2,976]

I wonder is the axle and not the spindle would be the weak point after you had the axle bored out.

Mike............

My concern matches Mikes. I am just now reading this and its too dark for me to get a good measurement on my 520 roller, but right now I think you might not have alot of axle king pin area left if you bored your 165 axle out enough for a 520 spindle to fit. Plus there is the extra increase in diameter for the king pin bushing to fit in. (that is if there is a king pin bushing) (there is on the old IH Cub Cadets)

[MalMac 1,332]

I am with Don1977 here. I think you have a bad spindle that had a bad weld job on it. To break your spindle where you said you would have to had put a severe amount of weight up there or done some kind of damage. Under normal use they should not break. I have a front end loader on one of my tractors and before I put on the Heavy Duty front spindle kit I used it with just the stock spindles. I did bend one finally but did not break it. Just my opinion but if you are not putting a Front End Loader on I would just put a new stock spindle back in.

 

I think you can still get the Heavy Duty spindles but not in the kit form anymore. I just don't see where you need them though.

[buckrancher 2,694]

boring the axle out to 1" and using 520 front spindles and wheels is not a problem I did that on a C165 that I have a ark loader on

 

Brian

Edited March 24, 2013 by buckrancher

[6wheeler 669]

Thanks for you input guys. I put 150# of suitcase weights on a custom weight bracket I made to fit (robbed from a simplicity citation). Bill, having my MB plow set correctly is what "creates " the problem. When I get into some tough ground, the front end  of the tractor tends to get light. In other words, it lifts off the ground. There for you have no steering. The weights help keep it down. Don, I would have thought the same thing. I had the weights on for 1 day. I had my digger on in the garden and all seemed ok. The steering was a little tougher but worked fine. I put the tractor in the shed for the night and when I got it out the next day? All I did was back it out of the shed and bang.... I wondered if the weld as you and MalMac stated could have been the culprit. Duane, I agree. I don't need  the gear reduction for MB plowing. I actually used the 520 last spring after I broke the 165 spindle. I found that I don't care for the hydro for garden work and the gear reduction steering had no benefit at all for that. If that loader axle would fit the 165 w/o much modification? I would be interested. I believe the 520 axle would be good but, I'd need to make the larger tie rods fit on the lower shaft or change it out also. Mike and Van, That is what I was afraid of also. If I were to bore it out for the 1" kingpins and bushings? If i am correct, it would end up being an 1 1/4" bore and that it seems would make the side walls pretty thin to me as well. Just creating another weak point. The bracket I made mounts to the side of the frame rails and doesn't seem to have any adverse effects on the integrity of them as no cracks have appeared. Do you guys think 150 pounds is too much weight. I would think a FEL would put more strain on the axle than that. Brian. Did you have to make any changes as far as the tie rods went?

[Wheel-N-It 2,976]

Brian, thanks, you saved me a trip out to the barn today. Its been raining ever since late last night.

 

150lb of weight hanging on the front of a Wheel Horse sounds like alot to me, although I am certainly not an expert regarding that. I am beginning to wonder if you would be better off by having less hanging weight, and using wheel weights on the front wheels (inside and outside), also add fluid weight to your front tires. Once again I am no expert here, just trying to brainstorm a little in an effort for you to have to do less cutting and welding and boring. If it helps you any, I did upgrade the front axle of my IH CC 1650 to use 1" spindles instead of the original 3/4". This is the upgrade most CC guys do when adding a loader. What would interest you is the king pin diameter remains the same, only the axle size changes. I hope this has been some help.

Van

[leeave96 490]

Bill, having my MB plow set correctly is what "creates " the problem.

 

Probably a poor choice of words on my part...

 

I guess what I was getting at was - how deep are you plowing?  The depth of the plow should only be half of the plow width.  So if you have a 10 inch moldboard, then you should be going down 5 inches.  The plow should be riding fairly level in the ground once at depth.  If the angle of cut on the plow tip is right, the plow will only go down to that 5 inch setting - no need to have the lift cable hold it up.

 

I struggled for years (mostly because there is only so much garden I can plow) before I got my moldboard set such that that I had both good rear traction and steering too.  If the plow is going down to far, the draft is increased and the front want's to come-up.  If the lift cable is holding the plow from sinking further down, you'll have great traction as the plow is pulling down on the rear tires, but the front is coming up.

 

By no means would I consider myself an expert (or even close to it) on moldboard plow set-up, but the last few years out, I've had great luck in plowing both the year before's garden and some virgin soil.

 

If you go to http://www.ihcubcadet.com/forum/messages/4/4.html?1364153109 there is a WEALTH of info there on moldboard plowing and set-up via their search function.  It's all great reading.  There is a great guy who posts there who is the best I've ever read regarding plow set-up.  His name is Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow".  His profile is here:  http://www.ihcubcadet.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.pl?action=view_profile&profile=sblunier-users - and check out the double moldboard plow he fabricated - impressive!  It's OK to add a Yellow/White machine to your fleet - just don't trade a Wheelhorse for one...

 

I'm interested in seeing how you make out with your plowing - I've got some to do later this Spring (once it quits snowing) and will follow-up with some pics and comments.

 

Good luck!

Bill

Edited March 24, 2013 by leeave96

[6wheeler 669]

Bill, having my MB plow set correctly is what "creates " the problem.

 

Probably a poor choice of words on my part...

 

I guess what I was getting at was - how deep are you plowing?  The depth of the plow should only be half of the plow width.  So if you have a 10 inch moldboard, then you should be going down 5 inches.  The plow should be riding fairly level in the ground once at depth.  If the angle of cut on the plow tip is right, the plow will only go down to that 5 inch setting - no need to have the lift cable hold it up.

 

I struggled for years (mostly because there is only so much garden I can plow) before I got my moldboard set such that that I had both good rear traction and steering too.  If the plow is going down to far, the draft is increased and the front want's to come-up.  If the lift cable is holding the plow from sinking further down, you'll have great traction as the plow is pulling down on the rear tires, but the front is coming up.

 

By no means would I consider myself an expert (or even close to it) on moldboard plow set-up, but the last few years out, I've had great luck in plowing both the year before's garden and some virgin soil.

 

If you go to http://www.ihcubcadet.com/forum/messages/4/4.html?1364153109 there is a WEALTH of info there on moldboard plowing and set-up via their search function.  It's all great reading.  There is a great guy who posts there who is the best I've ever read regarding plow set-up.  His name is Steve Blunier "Mr. Plow".  His profile is here:  http://www.ihcubcadet.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.pl?action=view_profile&profile=sblunier-users - and check out the double moldboard plow he fabricated - impressive!  It's OK to add a Yellow/White machine to your fleet - just don't trade a Wheelhorse for one...

 

I'm interested in seeing how you make out with your plowing - I've got some to do later this Spring (once it quits snowing) and will follow-up with some pics and comments.

 

Good luck!

Bill

Bill, thanks for this info. Everyone can benefit from this. I still farm with my family only on a part time basis. So, setting a plow is pretty simple for me. But, I do agree with Van, I may be asking too much of this smaller equipment and 150# of weight hanging out there on the front axle probably is a bit much. I plow most of my ground in the spring(for my gardens) as I don't need to worry so much about weed control. On the farm of course, time is money so fall tillage is the best answer and more herbicides are what we do. I just want to make the tractor a little stronger. I have never been a user of front wheel weights simply because of airing tires and general maintenance. The same with rear wheel weights. If I can use fluid in the rear I prefer to do that as well, without the use of rear wheel weights. But, I never really thought of fluid in the fronts. If the front end did lift with that, it most certainly would be easier on the axle.  I know on our big tractors we use alot of front end weights but of course, the front axles are quite a bit larger and stronger. But trying to be a mini-farmer as well, I want to make my equipment stronger too.  I am also working on some onland type implements and not mounted so that too could make a difference.

[Wheel-N-It 2,976]

About the onlyh other thing I can think of right now that we have not discujssed is using the entire front assembly from a different brand lawn and garden tractor. I am thinking something like the JD 400 series, or even CC Supers. Just a thought. Let us know if any of these ideas are put into motion (literally).

Van

[Whmaverick 54]

I did see a while back where someone used a JD front axle on a WH to get a cheaper 1" axle. Also setting the proper "suck" on your plow will keep the front end from getting light. I also agree with keeping the hanging weight down and try fluid in the tires and maybe if needed some wheel weights. Good luck and let us know how it goes, pics would even be acceptable. LOL

[buckrancher 2,694]

  . I would think a FEL would put more strain on the axle than that. Brian. Did you have to make any changes as far as the tie rods went?

 

yes I went to the next larger size tie rod ends and made my own all I had to change on the tractor was open up the holes in the lower steering shaft to 7/16" also just bore axle to 1" no bushings just like originals

I also add trust bearings between the axle and spindles like the 520 uses

 

brian

Edited March 25, 2013 by buckrancher

[MalMac 1,332]

Well 150lbs is not as much as a FEL but still a lot of weight. I think you got to remember here is what the tractor is. It's a garden tractor and not a big farm tractor like stated before. There has been a lot of people through the years pull plows with these tractors with out putting that much weight out front and have not had any problems. I farm too and I have been guilty of trying to cross over what works with the big tractors to the little tractors. I still think that you got to look at the combination of a bad spindle from the factory and adding just a little too much weight. With that said unless you are really out there bucking that front end up and down I can't see that spindle really breaking the weld unless it was bad. Just my opinion of course I am sure there are other factors involved.