Starter Motor Replacement

[ron.cieri.313 0]

Hi all...I've started restoring a recently purchased C-100 manual with a 10Hp Kohler K241S engine.  The machine did run when I purchased it but could only start if a battery charger was connected to the battery...the previous owner thought the battery was bad...I think he was wrong...think it was the rectifier...with the old rectifier still in place but a new battery, I left the charger on over night and I think that caused a meltdown...starter motor wouldn't work anymore...sigh...so i bought one off ebay...installed and it fired but it stopped...seem like it jammed into the larger rotor which it is suppose to turn...it was replaced by the seller and same thing.

 

I've made sure the rotor can turn freely...err now at least...maybe that was the problem but i didn't think to check as the engine had just been running the day before....long story short...I need a new starter motor...any recommendation?...it is the 10 tooth version; part number A-237510 (or A-237534 after a certain serial number which I will have to double-check)

 

I tried rebuilding the original but no luck...I checked but hooking directly up to the motor with charging cables....thanks everyone...Ron.

[puddlejumper 67]

Are you saying you have went through three starters including the original, and were the ebay ones used or remanufactured. If so how long are you cranking it over before it starts.(Ovreheating the starters).And I think I would check the teeth on the flywheel. Its possible you have gotten two bad starters but I would be looking for a cause before chancing damage to a third. And how do the starters work when not installed in tractor, dont hurt youself but power them up on a bench or in a vice.

[ron.cieri.313 0]

Yes I totally agree...but I've checked the teeth on both the starters and flywheel...looks normal...the replacement starters i only fired for about a second...then engagewith a clunk n die...my theory is that the flywheel was stuck...I don't know why as it has been running but I did notice it was difficult to turn until i took the grass screen covering the outer flywheel and turned it manually a few times from the outside....it seems to click and get looser...so I'm wondering if the original was burned out through overuse...maybe on its last legs...and the replacements were breaking due to the engine flywheel being stuck?

 

I know the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results so i have pondered rebuliding the topend and heck maybe its a bearing on the crankcase but like i said...when I bought it did run fine with the help of an outside power source attached to the battery...in fact sounded pretty darn good.  I have removed and cleaned the carb during this whole process...rebuilt the air filter assembly...replace the rectifier and waiting on a new solenoid...so hmmmm...i have an old ebay starter coming in the mail and i figure i will bench test first with a direct connection to the battery...if it works, i might chance it...if this one fires n fails then it is engine tear apart time i guess...any suggestions appreciated...thanks!...ron.

[puddlejumper 67]

If something is clicking when you manually turn flywheel, check and see if anything is behind it, rock, broken bolt, something loose wedging itself with centrifigal force,be a good time to check flywheel key and nut, Loose magnets condition of charging coils, Since tractor has a charging problem could be same thing causing both issues.

[ron.cieri.313 0]

Hmmm good point...the flywheel does seem to be turning fine now (manually) with no clicking sounds...your right though, might not have been a rectifier problem buy something else in the recharging system...well it's replace now and...

 

...I have new starter motor in...here's the stupid question of the day...how do i wire to bench test?  Using battery recharging cables, I would think one end/pair of positive/negative go to the battery posts and then the positive end of the other side goes to the connection post on the starter and then the other ground to the mounting plate of the starter to complete the connection?...remember the new starter is not on the machine...thanks all...ron.

[ron.cieri.313 0]

"battery recharging cables"...meant to say standard jumper cables...thx

[puddlejumper 67]

Ground(neg)to case of starter,positive to same terminal that energizes when on tractor, You should probably put in vice if you have never done this before, It will jump due to torgue,Its not bad but be warned.

[Kelly 1,033]

Pull the flywheel off to see if the magnets are still glued in place, one or more may have came loose, and can cause a big problem, if they get bound up, and that could cause a charging issue.

[ron.cieri.313 0]

thaks all...current status...no sound whatsoever from the ignition system when key is turned...this is after replacing the solenoid, rectifier, battery and starter motor...regarding the starter motor, before I saw the post on the wiring for home benchtesting (thanks puddlejumper), I took it over to Murray's and it ran...so that's when I put everything back on the tractor gave it a turn and still nothing...not even a click....sigh...i think i need to slow down, back up a few steps and get organized on this...suggestions greatly welcomed.

 

On the flywheel...do I just put the tractor in gear to keep the large center nut from spinning in order to remove?

 

...thanks, ron.

[ron.cieri.313 0]

...oh and nothing electrical seems to work right now...not the headlights (which did work when I purchased) or the ammeter...but possible the machine need to be running for these to work (dunno but I'm sure someone does)...I have checked and replaced the fuse...which was fine anyways...thanks.

[puddlejumper 67]

Use something to hold output shaft while taking off nut, Be carefull if you try to wedge something in the fins of the flywheel they will break and its not worth the risk. AS far as nothing electrical working check to see if your battery has held a charge,The tractor will not charge a bad battery(Back to your original post).You said you have since put in a different battery are you sure its good since you had a little trouble after leaving on battery charger. If battery test good check and CLEAN all connections including ground straps.

[ron.cieri.313 0]

I think you're absolutely right...time to start with the battery...its on a charger now and i need to replace my voltmeter which fell into a small black hole in my garage and now can't be found...i will check the battery tonight with the new voltmeter...the connections look absolutely fine and fairly new...I think both the cable leading from the battery to the solenoid and the one from the ground connection to the frame were replaced...but cleaning with some scotchbrite wouldn't hurt...will keep you posted...if that checks out...what would you do next?

[ron.cieri.313 0]

Okay...voltage checks out at 13.7...so going to put the battery back in and try now that I know it's good.

[puddlejumper 67]

 when I said check All connections that meant to back of switch and all. It was working before so I am gambling that you have pulled something loose, Or broke a wire that was poorly connected when you got it.Clutch pedal pushed in ,safety switches unplugged or not engaged It could be any of the above.

[ron.cieri.313 0]

I think it a safe bet cuz per your note i just found a loose or broken connection.  I started reading through the wiring diagram thoroughly and noticed what look like a box indication a second small fuse in the PTO to solenoid circuit...well, it wasn't a fuse as you may know but rather a wiring connector...I imagine its there so you can disconnect when removing the engine from the frame...well i look at and tried to gently pull apart and when i did the wire from the connectors just fall out....so look like a good place to start ...fingerscrossed.

 

The clutch and PTO switch seem to be operating fine at least from the outside...but I'll make this fix and see what happens and if there are other possible bad/burnt connections...thanks