kohler verticles???

[bambooheels 0]

:imstupid: ??/ but how come you never see any oler kohler verticle engine??/ i know they currently make verticles but did they not mke them back in the early 60's and 70's???? i never see a kohler vert on anything thats oler... any info? reasons?

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,610]

This has been discussed on here before, probably before you joined. And yes, Kohler did make a vertical shaft engine. For instance, the 1969 and 1970 Wheel Horse Commando V8, had a vertical shaft Kohler, a KV181S in it. There might be others. Joel, our resident vertical shaft guy, could tell you more. B)

[bambooheels 0]

thanks terry, to be honest i have never seen one or heard about them at all. if by chance anyone has that old topic please send it to me, i did look for it. B)

[CasualObserver 3,411]

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=536

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1219

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,610]

Thanks, Jason, for posting the links. I was too lazy, er, I mean, too busy to do the search. Yeah, that's it, too busy. B)

[combatmp29r 27]

Kohler did make vertical shafts in the sixties for sure. I own 5 of the KV181s. They also made a KV161, but Wheel Horse never used them. The Kv181 was onlu used 2 years and on 3 models. The 1969 Commando V8 1-4841, the 1969 Charger V8 1-7841, and the early 1970 Commando V8 1-4851. The Later Commando models that year 1-4852, and the Chargers 1-7851 all used a vert Tucky. Springfield tractor used the KV161, and KV181 engines, and I'm told some of the older Sears verts used the KV161. I found a KV161 and am in the process of working a deal to aquire it. I am too busy like Terry to read the other threads now, so I hope I don't repeat too much. I know when I started to look for parts for these engines Kohler told me they never made them. After finding an original owners manual though they felt quite sheepish and made up for the hassle they gave me over them.

Here is a pic of an original KV181 in a 69 Commando V8

Hope this answers your question. If you want to know any more about them, let me know.

[CasualObserver 3,411]

Thanks, Jason, for posting the links. I was too lazy, er, I mean, too busy to do the search. Yeah, that's it, too busy.

No problem...

Bambooheels.... sometimes that search engine can be pretty picky about what you put into it. One of the keys it to search both 30 days and newer, and then 30 days and older.... you never know when the topic was....

[wh500special 2,277]

I recall talking to my dealer in St. Louis when I lived there about these tractors and the KV Kohlers. He remarked that the engines were very problematic due to an oiling issue. He HATED them! I think he said that the oil would not always return to the little catch basin inside the engine from where it was then slung back on the crank, rods, etc and the engine would give up the ghost.

I have no first hand account of these things though, so have to defer to Joel for the real story. I have always wanted to find one with the original KV-181, but have yet to find any that meet my price/location/condition desires.

I'd imagine that a lot of parts are shared with the horizontal K-181's though, so that is probably a good thing if you want to maintain/rebuild one.

Joel, by the way, I am sending you an email with some questions about this stuff.

Steve

[combatmp29r 27]

Steve,

I have heard that the KVs had an oiling issue too, but heard it was theo ther side of the deal that the presurized system would fail to feed the slinger not the sump run dry I have put many many hundredes of hours on these engines and have never had an issue yet.

As far as sharing parts with the Horizontal 181s, no dice. A few pieces interchange, rod, piston, um yeah thats it. Alot of parts cross over to K141 and K161 motors, but only to a select few spec numbers. A crank at last check was over $400 and a cam was around $300. Oh and Kohler doesn't have any intention of producing these parts. Last I checked there were only a handfull left in the warehouse. Thus the reason I ****** up most of the ones I can find :whistle:

[BPjunk 184]

Well along with the oiling problem as Steve and Joel mentioned ..... the "fix" to repair the oil starvation problem was very exspencive as the block would have to come apart and a hole for oil to flow through would have to be drilled.

Now ifn's I find one of these KV 8hp engines in a vertical shaft Wheel Horse I will make a puller out of it so the engine will pointing the right direction when in use!

Wild Bill in Richmond, Va.

Attached Image

[combatmp29r 27]

Wow I had to dig back to page 7 for this thread. We must be gettin big LOL

Ok BP I know that you told me at portland you were looking for the specifics on the KV repair to fix the oiling problem. Well while at another RS members today borrowing a Horse and Mighty Mak chipper, this came up in discussion. Well by some odd chance, he had this

Not really very odd since he is the original vertical shaft guy, but still BP you can stop your search :banghead:

[M i k e 33]

Hello, I know this might be a little off topic but I have a KV181S off a WH (exact model unknown) that I was fixing to rebuild for kicks but no longer have time for, just incase anyone is still interested

 

Thanks,

Mike

[Tankman 3,523]

I've owned quite a number of Horses, never had a vertical shaft WH. I'm going to look, just out of curiosity, at the drive belt routing. I thought the vertical shafts were limited; lawn vs garden.

 

Did the verticals perform like the horizontals? I did inherit a Cub with a 25hp vertical shaft (54" SD deck). Sold it 'cause it was a "lawn tractor" which wasn't red. 

[CasualObserver 3,411]

Good Lord this post is an oldie.

 

The orientation of the engine does not determine whether a tractor is a lawn or garden tractor, it's the capabilities of the machine.  Generally the ability to operate ground-engaging implements.  I personally consider them a lawn tractor, but will tell you this..... Wheel Horse put a sleeve hitch on them.    And being the smart engineers and business people they were in their day, I doubt they'd have done so if they thought it was beyond the capability of the machine, because if it was, there would have been a large potential loss in warranty repairs!

[Tankman 3,523]

Good Lord this post is an oldie.

 

The orientation of the engine does not determine whether a tractor is a lawn or garden tractor, it's the capabilities of the machine.  Generally the ability to operate ground-engaging implements.  I personally consider them a lawn tractor, but will tell you this..... Wheel Horse put a sleeve hitch on them.  And being the smart engineers and business people they were in their day, I doubt they'd have done so if they thought it was beyond the capability of the machine, because if it was, there would have been a large potential loss in warranty repairs!

Thanks Jarhead. The pic's certainly have me scratchin' my head. Looks like a engineered Horse.

 

The pictures of the installed engine and your sleeve hitch photo say a lot, "Horsey."   

[wh500special 2,277]

Some of the vert's were surprisingly heavy duty. The 60's versions had their own iteration of the unidrive transaxle, complete with cast iron housings and heavy gearing. The hydro's were probably on par with the early hydro gears used in the 875/1075/1276/gt....

The V8 tractors had a heavy cast iron front frame section too. It was extremely robust and added much needed weight to the tractor to counterbalance the tiller, plow, or whatever was on the sleeve hitch.

But, the series of tractors weren't without their faults. They do deserve a bit more respect than collectors give them. They certainly weren't very popular when new and are even less so now. While not really Rare, you certainly don't see many of them at show and they do deserve a place in a serious collector's fleet.

I've never shied away from any of the vertical tractors. Since this thread was started ages ago I've owned several of the early verts and most of their successors. They all have their place and in some ways are better suited to my needs than the bigger, more conventional WH tractors.

Neat thread to revive!

Steve

[wh500special 2,277]

Wow...not really very odd since he is the original vertical shaft guy, but still BP you can stop your search

That's gotta be a reference to Terry B from south of Indy. Terry, you on here?