3 piece trans questions

[big mike 13]

I am trying to put together enough parts to build a trans for what I believe will be a 1960 400.

I have pulled 3 trannys and all appear to be the same style.

Is there a reason I should not mix and match parts as long as physical dimensions and tooth counts match?

The second issue will be to address the worn axles shafts where they ride in the side cover tubes.

Lastly,are all the bearings and bushings still available?Are they commonly used bearings?

It's a shame how these poor old souls have been abused......water,rust,ground up gears,broken teeth,broken case.

[stevasaurus 22,237]

Hey Mike, how ya doing? Remember, I picked up some parts from you on the way to the Big Show a few years ago.

First, you are trying to put together a #5010...on the outside, the brake band mount is at a 45 degree angle. If you have a trans with the brake band mount at a 90 degree angle...that is a #5003 (58/59 RJs). All of the parts are interchangeable. The tooth count comes into play with the 2 types of differential gear housings and the brake shaft gear.. As long as you match the two, you can use either combination. (see video link). I think you will find that at least one of your sets of axles are OK. You can drill a roll pin hole in the hub end of the axle and flip the axle over. All bearings, bushings and seals are available...(see chart). I've been rebuilding these transmissions lately, and have done some videos, and charts to make it easier for the members to get into this. Electrolysis works good on the rusted gears. There is plenty of help here if you need it. Take some pictures and let us know.

SUBURBANS & RJ 58/59 TRANSMISSION CROSS OVER CHART FOR THE WH # 5003 AND # 5010 TRANSMISSIONS

DESCRIPTION..............................................................WH #......................VENDOR..........QUANTITY...........SIZE

BRONZE BEARING (AXLE)..........................................1503.......................CB-1618-12..........2..................1" X 1 1/8" X 1 1/2"

BRONZE BEARING (DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING)..........1517.......................CB-2224-14..........2..................1 3/8" X 1 1/2" X 1 7/16" need to cut to 1 1/2"

INPUT SHAFT & OUT END OF BRAKE SHAFT.............1519........................S8K ground..........4..................3/4" X 1 5/8" X 5/16"

CLUSTER GEAR SHAFT & 11/44 GEAR BASE............1502........................NICE 412-35........3..................3/4" X 1 5/8" X 3/8"

INPUT GEAR NEEDLE BEARING.................................1518........................B-108...................1..................5/8" X 15/16" X 1/2"

BRONZE BEARINGS (CLUSTER GEAR SHAFT............1504.......................EP-1214-12..........2..................3/4" X 7/8" X 3/4"

BRAKE SHAFT (NEEDLE) IF YOU HAVE THIS............1508.......................B-1212.................1..................3/4" X 1" X 3/4"

SEALS AXLE (FROM TORO ONLY)..(CAP)...................1257.......................83-2840...............2

SEALS INPUT SHAFT & BRAKE SHAFT (BALL BRNG)..1234......................741643 timken......2

SEAL BRAKE SHAFT (IF NEEDLE BRNG).....................1303......................7410 skf................1

All of the above is available from Motion Industries, except the axle cap seals (Toro only appros. $18.) and the NICE 412-35 bearings (available from ksodirect.com...(http://kscdirect.com/item/GEN%2B22603-01/INDEPENDENT%2BDISTRIBUTORS%2BCOOP_412-35%2B%2BA-4852A%250A).

You have to cut your own gaskets...KEROPAK 12" x 36" x 1/32" ($6. from auto Zone).

Another link with some videos...the 5003 is basically the same as the 5010.

[big mike 13]

Steve,absolutely I remember you!

Most times I cannot remember my own name but very rarely do I forget nice tractor folk.

Thanks for the info!!!!!!

I strongly believe it is a 5010.

This is going to mainly be a putt-around not a worker but I would like it to be mechanically sound.I will continue to clean and sort parts.I'm not terribly worried about the rust but I have a spooge tank if need be,actually most of the rusted parts were so bad I had to pitch them.

[big mike 13]

Well I think I have a good case,set of gears,axles and diff but now I need to address the wear on the axle tubes where the differential rides.I'm not sure if I should cut the welds put the tubes in the lathe and turn them down then make sleeves,weld them on,turn to size and weld them back in place.Or should I mount them in the mill and use the boring head to turn then down,make sleeves,weld and turn to size.....neither is very easy.

[stevasaurus 22,237]

Mike, what are you talking about?? Are the axles that worn out??? The bronze bearings come right out and you put in new ones...cut them to length and hone them out to fit the axle. Take a small, flat screw driver and punch, cut the old bronze bearing to loosen it up and pull it out...order the new bronze bearing...cut it to length (about an 1 1/2") and tap in with a wooden block...file the edges and then hone out until the axle fits and turns easily. If the bronze bearings are gone in the axle tubes and you have wear in the tube itself, I would buy the bearings and see if they still fit snug. Let me know what you have there. How about some pictures??

[big mike 13]

I did not pay close attention to the carriers but I know that one carrier bushing came out on its own and was paper thin.The carrier I picked to use has the bushings still intact but was very worn and the axle tubes in all three trannys were worn badly.

My tech capabilities are very model T but I will give pics a shot

[stevasaurus 22,237]

Upload pics to Photobucket and then use the IMG code to attach a link here. I would buy a couple of new bronze bearings (about $6 for both) and see how they sit on the carriers. A light file and emery cloth goes a long way...you did say that you were just going to ride around on it. If you were going to really work it, that may take a little more metal work. When you get the new bronze bearings, you will know what you may have to do.

I used the housing to tap the bearing in and then cut it to length with a Saws-all.

[big mike 13]

Let's see if I can make this work,

Hey,it worked!

Not sure if you can make out how scored they are.I know I said just a putt around but I would like to address this before putting it together on the off chance it would be a problem down the road.

I will get the bushings and see where I need to go from there.

Thanks Steve!

I appreciate the help!

Edit as of 12:50 pm

I have 2 bushings on order at Motion Ind for pick up tomorrow so I will see how the fit.

[stevasaurus 22,237]

I have seen worse Mike...they don't look that bad from here. The bearing will compress a little when you tap it into the differential housing, I have just been lightly filing the ridges and smoothing with emery cloth. See what ya think when you get the bearings. BTW...nice pictures.

Edited February 5, 2013 by stevasaurus

[big mike 13]

It's very hard to tell from the pics.....and I have not measured them to say how bad they are but my gut(and there is a lot of that )tells me I need to do something to make the new bushings last.

I am anxious to see how they fit tomorrow night.

[big mike 13]

Steve,I'm going to start calling you the Horse Whiperer!

I slipped the bushings over the tubes last night and they fit surprisingly well......but,I still want to smooth the grooves worn into the tube just the same.

[big mike 13]

Well,I just could not stand to put new bushings on tubes with grooves worn in them so I cut the welds,pulled the tubes out,welded them up,turned them back down and welded them back into the side plates.Tomorrow I'll press the bushings into the carrier and trim them up.

Slow and steady wins the race.

[stevasaurus 22,237]

WOW Mike...you have way more talent then I have...and equipment. Hope you took some pictures to share. I sure would like to see this process. :bow-blue:

[big mike 13]

Don't give up on me Steve,my old truck felt the need for some quality time with me so I decided to put on a belt idler pulley and then the power steering pump wanted to play.

I hope next weekend I can get back to the trans

[big mike 13]

I finally got some tme to work on the trans.I realized after I welded the tubes up that I forgot a step......align the tubes with the carrier.Today after I honed the bushings for fit I slipped a solid shaft through from side to side,bolted the plates to front and rear sections of an old case then heated the side plates with the oxy/acetylene torch and then let it cool.....bingo,everything turns just like it should.

After cleaning some more parts and gathering some bearings and a seal I think I will be ready for assembly.

[stevasaurus 22,237]

Sounds great Mike...I like the way you are tackling this.  Some pictures would be nice...

[big mike 13]

Steve,I always say I am going to take a bunch of pics when I start a project and once I get into it either the camera is in the house or my hands are filthy but I did take one of the gaskets.

[stevasaurus 22,237]

Nice gaskets Mike.  Thanks for the pic.    A neat trick when cutting your own gaskets, is to leave about 1/2" of material around the outside of the gasket.  That makes it easier to adjust the gasket after you get the casting in the right position.  Very easy to trim excess off with a razor knife after you bolt it together. 

 

I know...thanks for telling me now.

[big mike 13]

That is a good tip!

A good tip I have is to use a drill press.I use a piece of brake line sized for the O/D of the hole and then use a tapered reamer to make a cutting edge.Put it in the drill press,back up your gasket with a piece of wood and make perfect holes.

Tomorrow I hope to pick up the two seals I need and I will try and find a piece of 1144 stress proof steel to make new axles from......I know,just use the old ones,what fun is that?

[stevasaurus 22,237]

What...you got a machine shop in your garage???  I am on my way...takes 3 hours. :)

[big mike 13]

Sounds like a plan!

[big mike 13]

Inching ever so close to assembly.

Yesterday I got the side cover seals and today I ordered the axle seals.......OUCH!

Last night I made the first of the two new axles, I should have the other made tonight.

A stop at the hardware store on the way home should yield the woodruff keys I need.

[stevasaurus 22,237]

Mike, don't throw out those old axles.  I have a feeling they are good enough to make a trans whole for some one who just wants to ride around.

 

Please put up some pics of your new ones.

Edited February 27, 2013 by stevasaurus

[big mike 13]

Steve,I'll save the old ones as well as the first pair of new ones.......I realized the originals could have used something more substantial than a woodruff key but not until I had already made a new one with a woodruff key.I am going at lunch to see about some more stock and I am going to make another set......with square key stock,that should give the more sirface area for the key to seat to.

 

I know I am turning this into much more than it needs but I'm learning a lot as I go so that's good

[big mike 13]

Well,I knew it would happen and it did.The camera was in the garage setting in plain site and the trans got re-assembled and would you believe that darn camera just sat there.

So the trans is setting on the bench waiting for a frame to hook it to and since I'm off tomorrow I'll start the next step in this journey.

 

Thanks for all your help this far Steve!