Seal replacement problems

[dustycarter 3]

Drained all my old oil. Flushed the transmission 3 times with diesel. Flush it with a quart of oil. The another quart or cheap oil. Then replaced my seal. I put the seal on the axle, got a washer and hammered it in flush with the transmission. Then filled it with 2 quarts of 80-90. Did just fine. No leaks for about 15 minutes. Drove it around parked looked and it was just pouring oil. A few choice words and some tools going flying across the yard, I come to you all for help. I absolutely hate mechanics. When I first started the seal replacement I thought hmm, this won't be bad. It wasn't until half my oil came out. The seal was flush in the case and no space. When i looked closer, the seal seemed to have been pushed out at the top just a hair. I don't know if it was because I drove it or what. So please help me.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

Is there up/down play in the axle indicating a bad bearing?

Did you remove all of the burrs from the axle - especially the keyseat area? I protect the seal by covering the entire keyseat area with a piece of electrical tape.

Using the wheel hub as a seal pusher will almost guarantee that the seal is installed evenly and straight.

[stevasaurus 23,454]

It would be nice to know what horse and trans you are talking about...at least to see if the seal is the correct one. I'd be guessing the 312-8 because of your signature.

Check for burrs on the end of your axle and the key way...you may have put a small cut in the seal pushing it on...ask me how I know. If so, file them down and put a piece of masking tape over the spots and push on a new seal. If you have a worn out bearing in the axle...more then normal play up and down with the axle...that could make it leak also.

Oh Oh...TT and I posted at the same time...Hi Terry. :bow-blue:

[dustycarter 3]

Yes there is a little bit of play. I didnt think anything of it. No i didnt see or remove any burrs. I didnt put anything over the key hole either. So do you think I need to redo it using the hub to seal the seal? Do you think that will work? If not what would I need to do in order to fix it?

[dustycarter 3]

When I rubbed my hand over the axle, there was nothing. And yes it is the Uni drive transmission on my 312-8

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

The sharp edge of the keyseat is enough to cut the seal.

You really don't have much choice other than to install another seal. :confusion-shrug:

[dustycarter 3]

Do you think that will help? So I don't have to take the transmission apart? Hopefully I can go to napa and find a replacement tomorrow or something,

[stevasaurus 23,454]

Was it a new seal...and the right one? With out looking, do you have 1 1/8" axles? I would not use the hub to seat the seal...use a punch and a small ball peen hammer to tap the seal in until flush. No, you do not have to take the trans apart, unless it is a bad bearing that is causing the leak.

One other thing. If you are using the old seal and it started leaking after doing all the flushing you did, get a new seal and use tape to cover the end of the axle and the key way.. The flush stuff you used may leak out of an old seal for a while.

Edited January 15, 2013 by stevasaurus

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

If the bearing is tight, the axle isn't scarred at the sealing surface, and you correctly install the seal, it shouldn't leak.

You can get the seal at Napa, but you'll need to know which one you need.

1" axles take a CR / SKF 9815 (OEM 100863)

1 1/8" axles take a CR / SKF 11050 (OEM 100443)

[kpinnc 15,689]

Yes there is a little bit of play.

I have never done it myself, but have heard of others pressing in a new bearing- driving the original further into the housing without opening the case. I wish I had tried it before, because I've been in MANY of these trannies. In some cases, just opening one up creates more to fix (new gaskets, etc..) than a simple and reliable fix.

It should be an easy fix- provided the OEM bearing has not broken apart, and the axle itself is not the worn part. This would remove the play at the seal.

No amount of new seals will stop the leak if the bearing is worn enough to allow the axle to move. A tiny bit of wiggle is one thing, but the seals can only flex so much.

[dustycarter 3]

Well i think I know what my problem is. How far does the seal go into the case? The seal I put in(which was new) was flush with the outside. It could go in more but members on here said to use a washer. ANd if it does go farther in, about how far? The seal seemed to have worked out just a hair so that could be my problem. And yes the axles are 1 1/8".

As far as the bearing, lets hope this seal will do the job. if not, I will try what you have said and just try it on the outside since I am by no means mechanically inclined.

Thank you all so much for the help! I need to send you all thank you cards! :laughing-rofl:

[stevasaurus 23,454]

As far as what "kpinnc" posted about putting in another bearing on top of what is there...the key word he used is pressed. It is a needle bearing and would not take to much to ruin the original bearing and/or the new bearing doing that. If the old bearing is that bad, you could create more problems and incur more costs then opening up the trans and doing it right. If you do have a bad bearing...you may want to go into the trans and see if there is anything else that is going bad and fix that and have the piece of mind that you have a good transmission.

The seal should be flush with the outside of the axle housing.

Edited January 15, 2013 by stevasaurus

[rmaynard 16,574]

I gently tap my seals in until they are fully seated. I use NAPA brand seals, and with them, that will mean that they are slightly below "flush". However, I would be more concerned with the "bit of play" that you mentioned. You should not be able to move the axle up/down or side to side. It will move in and out up to about an 1/8". So if it is moving up/down, I think therein lies your problem.

[Wishin4a416 2,213]

I gently tap my seals in until they are fully seated. I use NAPA brand seals, and with them, that will mean that they are slightly below "flush". However, I would be more concerned with the "bit of play" that you mentioned. You should not be able to move the axle up/down or side to side. It will move in and out up to about an 1/8". So if it is moving up/down, I think therein lies your problem.

Not to hijack but,

Bob, Do you know the NAPA number for these seals?

[dustycarter 3]

Well, I went out and tried again. I lost about 1/4 of a quart or something and my seal was on the axle about 1/2" from the transmission. So.... I got a punch and tapped it in about 1/8" or less. It bottomed out so hopefully I did what I was supposed to. It didn't leak so maybe its ok. I ran it for about 15 minutes with the tire off and the transmission at an angle. Knock on wood no leaking. Either it was completely out of oil for it to not leak or I did it right. So for the third time did I do it right?

Oh and the play was minimal from top to bottom. Maybe 1/16" if that. Hopefully it will last

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

Not to hijack but,

Bob, Do you know the NAPA number for these seals?

1" axles take a CR / SKF 9815 (OEM 100863)

1 1/8" axles take a CR / SKF 11050 (OEM 100443)

All NAPA generally does is add the NOS (Napa Oil Seal) prefix to the CR / SKF number.

Like so:

NOS 9815

NOS 11050

[Wishin4a416 2,213]

Thanks Terry! Didnt no that.

[stevasaurus 23,454]

Sounds good...just need to recheck the oil level. The level plug should be on the right side just below the right axle. Fill until the oil starts to run out this hole and put the plug back in. Unless you have a dip stick to do that for you??? :)

Edited January 16, 2013 by stevasaurus

[dustycarter 3]

Will do! I have both the dipstick and fill plug. Tomorrow I will fill with fluid and give it a good wash. Thanks a bunch to everybody!

[sorekiwi 761]

The level plug should be on the right side just below the right axle.

Dont you mean your other right Steve?? :ychain:

[stevasaurus 23,454]

Mike...not sure on those trans...do not have one...but the level plug on the 5003 and 5010 is on the right side, that is what I have been working with lately.

I am not a guru...just trying to help. :)

[kpinnc 15,689]

As far as what "kpinnc" posted about putting in another bearing on top of what is there...the key word he used is pressed.

Very good point.

I should probably clarify some things from my previous post:

First off, I would NEVER do this on a hydro. Just sayin...

Several years back, this bearing x2 option was discussed at length. Most of us agreed that it was feasable, but with limitations. A worn bearing (diameter of the needles themselves), with no obvious wear on the axle, and NO other damage would be the only candidate for this procedure in any shop. The use of a hammer and punch or something like that would NOT be the reccomended tools to perform this. PVC pipe, or a large socket, or something similar used CAREFULLY with a press would be the only way to push the bearing in without damaging it. NEVER TRY TO PUSH AN OLD BEARING WITH A NEW ONE. The key would be to push it further onto the axle and keep it intact without damage. If, and I should say IF you can push the bearing in without destroying it, it has no way of entering the tranny. The differential end caps seat in the 1533 bearing and there is no way into the tranny beyond it.

As I said, I have never done this- but I do recall someone else has. I wish I could remember who it was, but I don't.

In a perfect world, we would all go by the manual to the letter. Unfortunately some of these transmissions have been forming rust welds around things like long 3/8 bolts and hitch pins, and splitting the case can introduce all new challenges that none of us would be thrilled to get our hands on. Sometimes, it's a good idea to know a few trade secrets (even the theoretical ones) for when you are in a bind. That is the non-disclosed first point of my post.

On another note: I would seat the seals evenly with the opening for the axle ONLY if the axles extend out far enough to keep the hub from rubbing the seal. Some trannies have shorter axles, with only a tiny gap between the tranny and the hub. 1/4 inch of lateral "in/out" play is normal for these axles, and you don't want the hub rubbing through the seal over time. That brings me to my second point: With these machines, there are always little differences. No single fix works on everything the same way. You have to make the decision to use what you read -or not- on your machine. We all just try to help the best we can.

Kevin

[Lane Ranger 11,625]

One other note -when I replaced seals on my B-80 on both sides of the transmission case with the axle in I did use the washer method with a PVC pipe over the axle but I also soaked that seal with oil. Don't recall if it was machine oil or gear oil. when that PVC pipe got tapped with a rubber mallet the seal made a sound that sounded like it was sucked into the transmission! I think some of the old postings from Red Square members with more experience than I mentioned this was suppose to happen.PS. Thanks to Dustycarter for posting all this as it is a good reminder for us all on this needed maintenance task.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Lane Ranger

[tunahead72 2,581]

Several years back, this bearing x2 option was discussed at length.

Kevin,

Just trying to make sure I understand...

I remember reading on RedSquare about the technique of installing two seals on each axle, but you're actually talking here about installing two outer bearings on each?

The differential end caps seat in the 1533 bearing and there is no way into the tranny beyond it.

Just a point of reference here for anybody who might be reading this thread in the future. Some of the 300 and 400 series tractors (and possibly others?) used a different inner bearing, part no. 111199 (metric).

PS. Thanks to Dustycarter for posting all this as it is a good reminder for us all on this needed maintenance task.

Agreed. And thanks to everybody who's contributed information to this thread, you guys are all enhancing my Wheel Horse education, and I appreciate it greatly. :thanks:

Edited January 18, 2013 by tunahead72

[kpinnc 15,689]

I remember reading on RedSquare about the technique of installing two seals on each axle, but you're actually talking here about installing two outer bearings on each?

Yes and no. I said it was an option under certain conditions, and it has been discussed here before. Again, I have never tried it myself- YET.

In theory- once the bearing is pressed in past the contact surface, it would just ride the axle without touching anything else. If the bearing can be pressed into the case intact, it won't harm anything. If it is damaged in any way, the bet is off. Pressing in a damaged bearing would be introducing free-floating parts, and I was not reccomending that. The key would be recognizing the difference between simply worn and damaged/ falling apart.

Make sense?