LED Strobe Light Flashing too fast?

[Wyattrrp 59]

I bought an LED yellow flashing strobe light to mount high on the rear of my 1981 C-125 last year. Thinking that it would be an added safety feature when turning at the end of the driveway and clearing the mailbox across the road on my winding, dark street. I opted for LED thinking it was better than a rotating yellow incandesant bulb unit that likely draws more power and the bulb might not like the vibrations. The LED comes with a stretchy coiled cord and a cigarette lighter plug for plow trucks. I added a cigarette lighter female socket under the seat, tapping into the tail light wire. I plug the flasher plug into the female adapter and it works fine with the light switch.

Problem is, when it is not running and the key and light switch are on, it works very well with a flash rate of about 2 flashes per second. But once I start the 12HP Kohler, the flash rate jumps to perhaps 10-15 times per second. So fast it is almost not a flash, more like a steady on light. I think it would draw more attention and be more visible if at the slower rate which I assume it is designed for.

I checked the voltage with a multimeter at the cigarette lighter adapter and when not running it is just above 12 volts. Not sure how old the batt is but it starts and cranks very well. Once started and idling, the adapter has about 13 VDC and when full throttle about 13.5 to 14 VDC. The Ammeter stays just above the 0 mark once running and no issues with charging the Batt. No Volt meter on the tractor.

Is there a way to regulate the voltage to the tail lights so it will flash steady at the slower rate? I assume by reducing the VDC at the rear tail lights it would do similar to when the Kohler is off and key on? Would adding a resistor inline help?

Hoping someone with electrical knowledge has an answer?

Wyatt

[rmaynard 15,396]

I'm sure you will have your answer as soon as save_old_iron checks in.

[Cole 25]

Perhaps, the internals of the flasher have an adjustable potentiometer for the flash rate, can we have some pictures of the light if you can take it apart, I know one of my Christmas decorations have an adjustable Potentiometer on the inside for the flash rate.

[Trouty56 565]

Not sure how it is grounded but that may be something to check...

[Wyattrrp 59]

Here are photos. No adjustable Potentiometers. Interesting when I opened the bottome to phot the circuit board the -wire broke off, making me thin the ground may have been bad. But soldered the - wire back on an it does the same think mounted on C-125.

Same issue. Fast blink rate when Kohler is running

[HorseFixer 2,012]

Question? Have you tried hooking the strobe directly to the battery and do your tests that way?

~Duke

[Wyattrrp 59]

No Duke I have not tried direct wiring to the battery. It was simple to tap into the wires at the rear for the tail lights since I never want to run the flasher light if the lights are not on. I could try routing wires directly from the Batt to the rear Cigarette lighter socket if the Battery leads would be putting out more consistant voltage???? I figure the higher vottage from the stator on the light circuit causes the LED to flash faster so hoping to regualte the volts to 12V. But... maybe your idea would solve it by going directly to the Battery. The Male cigarette lighter plug does have a push button to turn it on and off so could wire it directly to the Battery and try to rememmer to push it when heading out to plow at night. Will try that in the next few days. Was hoping a resistor or other circuit could be added to regulate the voltage and therefore slower speed of flash could be controlled.

I assume a plow truck who these magnetic base flashers are geared toward, must have a steady voltage in thier Cigarette Lighter Socket??

M C-125 WH Volts rises when running faster at the rear lights but the incandesant bulbs are good with the varying volts, running a bit brighter.

Will try the direct wiring in the next few days ! Thanks for the idea.

[Cole 25]

Try an experiment, find and LED bulb like you have, you can find them on ebay or at radio shack for under 20 bucks, and hook it up to a turn signal flasher like the one laying in the top of your tool box, you know how when you have a burnt out turn signal on your vehicle, lets say the driver rear, well then the driver front will flash much faster than normal, kinda like it's had too many cups of coffee, probably 2-3 flashes per sec. because of less power draw or more power, in your case, that's the rate your looking for. all I'm saying is that you need to find an bright LED and a turn signal flasher and test em out, but before you spend some money, try hooking straight up to the power source like duke said.

[HorseFixer 2,012]

Wyatt I just cant believe that strobe is that sensitive by a volt or so and would flash that fast with so little change. Yes a Resistor can be added inline to do what you want to do but it will need to be a larger ceramic type resistor to disipate the heat. First I would get two aligator clip wires and go from that lil *** on the end of that plug to the plus + terminal of battery the side of the plug to - negative terminal of the battery then do a test with engine off then started and give me the results. If you have a decent mutimeter it should have a DC amp setting to about 10 amps. Put the meter inline on the positive between the stobe to battery and let me know what the peak amperage is.

~Duke

[meadowfield 2,570]

Hi,

what you are seeing is a phenomenon known as hard sync. The sensitive oscillator that is set to run at 2Hz is being false triggered by noise on the supply line. Connecting directly to the battery ought to fix the issue.

If this doesn't fix it I'm assuming you possibly have a faulty regulator (RR). The battery should be more than enough to smooth out the ripple created from the RR module.

mark

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

+1 on Mark's comments. Good insight.

One quick check to see if the device is defective, poorly designed or just a poor performer in an electrically noisey enviroment, simply plug the strobe into your car's lighter socket. If it strobes properly with the car off and then properly with the engine running, the root cause is most likely the electrically noisey environment of the tractors charging system (and they are extremely noisey). As Mark stated, batteries make excellent filters but not for all high frequency noise generated by RR switching on and off and the close proximity of the spark plug wiring to the 12 volt wiring. Trust us on this. There are entire books written on just this subject alone.

The idea of a resistor inserted into the power line will most likely result in a significant performance compromise. The issue is one of very different current demands drawn during the LED off and on cycle. Catch 22. If you insert a resistor large enough to limit the small current demand of the timer circuit, when it does fire the LED, the resulting voltage drop across your "fix" most likely will snuff out significant current to the LED's. LED's are current driven devices and your timer is voltage driven. You might get it "just right" with resistor trial and error, but then end up with more $$ in resistors than you have in the cost of the strobe.

I'm not sure how comfortable you are with electronics (and I believe this is an electronic issue - not an electrical issue). You may wish to add a set of filtering capacitiors onto the circuit board. This would be much cheaper than swapping out a marginal RR unit. I don't see any evidence of electrical noise filtering on the circuit board. A quick low $$ fix may be a small 0.01uf cap, and if there is room, a 470uf 35v electrolytic cap soldered directly across the (+) and (-) pads where the power cord attaches to the circuit board - probably $2 total @ Radio Shack.

The .01uf capacitor will act as an electrical "short circuit" to high frequency noise only. Any spark plug or RR switching noise entering thru the wiring onto the circuit board will be shorted to ground before entering into the timer circuit. The bigger blue electrolytic cap acts as a "electron bath tub". The blue cap will store a respectable charge between LED flashes. When the timer fires, the LED's can draw from the "bath tub" and not have to draw all the required current up thru a long length of possibly undersized wires. Result is better performance.

Why didn't the folks who designed this put in the extra 50 cents of components? Either they were too busy telling their Facebook friends what they had to eat for lunch that day and how the waitress did not make them feel "special", or their sales manager figured the extra 50 cents would make them "uncompetitive". I weep for the next generation.

[meadowfield 2,570]

it is always about the last cent unfortunately !!! I used to work as a power supply consultant in the US on satellite receivers, 99% of failed PSU's were failed capacitors because a 10,000hr part cost $0.10 more than a 2000hr part.

---------------------

I'd say the average current draw will be low and if the cap across the supply on the rail doesn't work then a low ohm resistor - 10R would probably work well with the filter cap.

[Wyattrrp 59]

Thanks for the ideas. I did plug it into the car lighter socket and it flashes slowly as it should with the engine off or running so that power source must not have the noise you are talking about. I will try direct wiring it tonight and let you know if that fixes the issue.

[SALTYWRIGHT 859]

I HAVE THE SAME LIGHT ON MY GT-14 AND IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN GOOD. I DO GO RIGHT TO THE BATTERY. YOU WILL NOT LEAVE IT ON WHEN SHUTTING DOWN. IT IS VERY BRIGHT.

[Wyattrrp 59]

Ok tonight I directly connected alligator clips to the battery terminals and to the plug end tip + and the side band - . Results are when Kohler is off it strobes an estimated constant 2 flashes per second. With Kohler running it was very sporadic. Flashing maybe 3 times fast (to fast to count) then stop 1/2 second then 4 to 6 fast flashes then stop 1/2 second then 2 flashes then stop. Disconnected and try again and this time it did a constant very fast flash like in the socket. Then next time back to morse code on and off spurts. As soon as the key is turned to off back to steady flashes at 2 per second which is the way it should function.

I then plugged it back into the original socket wired to the rear lights and it was back to the same steady really fast flash maybe as high as 10 times per second. So fast almost looks like a steady yellow light so it did not change and I didnt fry anything (yet).

Duke I have a 1970's multimeter I used while in the Air Force. It still functions 40 yrs later. They were upgrading so these went into the trash and my work cabinet. I have never used the DC Amp function but did try it inline on positive side while engine off and running. The highest setting is 10A but strobe did not flash either off or engine running and needle did not move. Turned to 500m setting, (whatever that means) and strobe flashed fine with engine off but it pegged the needle, then engine running it was erratic flash and needle pegged.

Save Old Iron I am foolish enough to try adding the capacitors as shown. Is there a difference between + and - on them and are they labeled? Do both get soldered across the + and - where the red and white power wire ends are soldered? I have not dealt with circuitry since the Air Force years ago and when I did, it was repairing aircraft radios (Tube type radios in F-100's, weighed in at 70lbs !) so I know enough about circuits to get in trouble but not afraid to give it a go anyway. Have no clue about the electrical theory behind it tho.

So I walk into Radio Shack and ask for a 0.01uf capacitor and a 470uf 35Volt capacitor? Any voltage limit on the .01uf? I have a 25 watt soldering iron so it won't be too hot for the board.

Funny 2 years ago my 46" Samsung LCD TV started having 1000 pink dots within the picture then it started to take up to 2 minutes to start and light up. Youtube had a dozen people that repaired theirs by replacing 3 10v 1000uf capacitors. It was pretty straight forward solder job. I couldn't find the replacements at Radio Shack so went to a TV repair shop. The guy says you have a Samsung right? Sold me the 3 for about $1.50 each. Said Samsung sends him theirs brand capacitors for warranty repairs and he throws them in trash and installs a 15v replacement. Said the circuit is 12 v and the originals are 10v so they are undersized. Nice huh?

Here are a couple clearer photos of the circuit board if that matters. 8 stacks of 8 LEDs.

WIil see if Radio Shack has them this weekend. No stores nearby.

Thanks for the help to all who responded.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

I will check the Radio Shack website tonight and pick out the most appropriate part #'s for you. :)

[Wyattrrp 59]

Thanks SOI. I appreciate the expertise and help!

Wyatt

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Model: 272-1065 | Catalog #: 272-1065

0.01µF 50V 10% PC-Mount Capacitor

and

470µF 35V 20% Axial-Lead Electrolytic Capacitor

Model: 272-1018 | Catalog #: 272-1018

should get you started. The .01uf capacitor is not polarized, either lead can be soldered to the plus or minus power cord. The 470uf capacitor is definitely polarized and will destroy itself in a fanfare of sparks and smoke if wired in backward.

Fortunately the identification of the + and - leads are on the capacitor body. No worries there.

When you pick up the caps at Radio Shack, make sure you have some electrical tape to provide an insulated pad on the circuit board. The one issue you may encounter is the size of the 470uf cap. I am not sure how much room you have underneath the PC board of the flasher. The diameter of the 470uf cap may be too large to fit underneath the board and may need to be mounted on top. If it doesn't fit underneath, you may need to drill a small hole in the PC board to allow wires to reach the power leads. If drilling holes is something you wish to avoid, we can start by soldering in the smaller .01uf cap only. That one additional alone may solve your problem.

I can help you along the way with instructs and cautions. The .01uf cap is a no brainer - solder it right across the power leads and lay a small tab of electrical tape under the cap to insulate the wire leads from touching any other part of the PC board.

[Wyattrrp 59]

SOI I will be in the area of a Radio Shack tomorrow so I will pick these up then and maybe do this in the next few days. Curious to know now! As a followup, I tried aligator clipping the strobe to my 1990 312 running and it flashed normal 2 per seconds off or on, no erratic flashing while direct wired. But I want it on the C-125. Only thing not standard on the 1981 C-125 is the Kirk Point Saver circuit. Not sure that should make any difference by who knows.

Also the circuit board already has 2 tiny holes at each the + and - solder spots. Those can be seen in the later photo I posted of the top of the circuit board. I think the cap will fit under but if not I will fit the leads thru the holes while heated.

Wyatt

[Wyattrrp 59]

BTW neat video. I might just have to buy an extra 470uf just to see if I can duplicate the video! Just kdding. The 3 Capacitors that were bad on my LCD TV had the tops expanded up a bit with a small amount of black gunk oozing out. Glad they didn't pop like these in the video while we were watching the evening news!

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Excellent - I did not scare you away. You passed the first test.

I am sure how much of a trek it is to the Radio Shack store, so if another $1.50 is not going to break the bank, pick up one of these also

Model: 100 µH RF Choke | Catalog #: 273-102

This should bring back memories from the 70's of the puttering noise in your new 8 track player caused by alternator "whine". Maybe, just maybe, we can place one of these pieces outside the strobe light to cure the issue.

You mentioned earlier about not fully grasping the theory of what we are doing. The issue will either turn out to be electrical voltage spikes coming in to the strobe thru the power cord or electrical impulses being broadcast by the spark plug wire being "received" by the strobe light timer circuit. Either condition will falsely instruct the timer to fire and increase the frequency of the lamp flashes. Note, the spark plug "broadcasts" a high voltage RF pulse 60 times per second at 3600RPM (some add on tach's and timing lights depend on this "broadcast" from the spark plug wire to function). In addition, the primitive style voltage regulator of the C series is spewing out DC voltage pulses at about the same rate onto the electrical circuit of the tractor. A healthy battery may be able to supress most of these pulses. A battery with some age will not be able to supress this interference as well as a fresh battery. Does your 312 have a newer battery than the c125? Just a thought.

The issue with the 312 may be explained if a magnum series engine is on the 312. The Onan style regulator on the magnum may be a more advanced and less hostile regulator toward modern day electrical accessories.

The .01uf cap will act as short only to high frequency ac signals - any DC voltage across the leads of the cap will not be affected. This characteristic allows any high frequency noise pulses from the regulator to be diverted away from entering the (+) power line of the strobe.

Placement of the capacaitor in the strobe will divert any power line pulse pulses. Any interference that is transmitted from the spark plug wire and "received" by the coiled wire power cable (antenna) will also be diverted back to gorund.

The RF choke acts has a similar effect. Instead of diverting the impulses to ground it simply is electrically too slow to react to them and fails to pass the quick impulses up the power cord to the strobe. If this issue turn out to be a power line issues only and not a spark plug noise issue, the RF choke may solve the entire problem. If you pick one up tomorrow, the first thing I would do before digging back into the strobe would be to alligator clip the RF choke in series with the (+) tip on the cigarette lighter plug to battery power and alligator the negative tab on the cig plug to tractor ground. Again, this one addition may be enough to solve your issue.

Thanks Wyatt for taking the time to investigate this issue. I'm sure it will help others if they run across this same issue. Hopefully we will have a $3 fix for them.

[varosd 1,185]

Chuck,

I think it was Deep Purple "Highway Star" from the live album Made in Japan (1972) on my 8 track under the dash from the "Shack". :D

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

I was fortunate enough in the 70's to grab a few extra $$ repairing tv's and bought a Roberts 8 track recorder back when they first came out. Funny how you can become Mr. Popularity when you are able to record albums onto 8 tracks. I don't think I ever bought an album or 8 track until I got out of school. I do recall the first tape thru the recorder was the YES ALBUM. The quality challenged some of the reel to reels of that era.

[Wyattrrp 59]

Nope Varisd and SOI. It was Inna-Gadda-Davita by the Iron Butterfly, 21 minutes long, on the underdash 8 track with 8 inch rear speakers fully cranked! Hmmmm. Save Old "Iron" ... "Iron" Butterfly??? Coincidence? I think not SOI! Are you keeping something from RS ??

WoW! Do I get a degree in Electronics if I live through this? If the "Choke" solves the issue do I get to reverse connect that 470uf and see if it explodes?? No need for calling the FBI here, just had my JD and fooling around folks. Videos to follow for sure if I get to blow it up.

I will pick up a "Choke" tomorrow as well and first try the inline + alligator connection (better make a note to pick up more alligator clips!). Which do I connect to my left earlobe for ground? Just having a laugh here as it gets more interesting.

Point of information, my coiled power cord to the strobe is connected under the rear right corner of the seat pan and extends up to a 3 ft high post mounted behind the driver from the weights mounted on the hitch bar. Is that close enough for the spark wire to still create the noise in the coiled "antenna"?

POI 1990 312-8 has a Magnum 12HP Kohler. Have no idea on Regulator but strobe works fine on that tractor if direct wired to Battery. Haven't tried to tap into rear lights. 312 Batt came with tractor 2 yrs ago so older than that. Cranks well. C-125 Batt is about 2 yrs old. Cranks fine. Both charge well at 13.5-14 volts and seem strong even in cold temps.

So if the Choke works I am done and need to solder it inline from the Batt to the Cig plug. If not, try adding the .01uf Cap and test that? Then if not fixed add the 470 (correctly connected). If Choke not succsesful do I eliminate it or make it #3 in the fixes? .... Wait the drums are kickin' in right now on that Iron Butterfly misic. Back in a while........

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Yes, perfect. The choke in series first to filter interference from the power line.. Second, leave the choke in and place the .01uf across the power pads inside the strobe. This addition should help if the coiled cord is an antenna. Third will be the possible surgery needed for the 470uf cap.