where do i get the power?

[JC 1965 1,532]

Just put a M-14 mag in my Raider 12. The mag. is one of those with the 3 amp stater. I'm having trouble trying to figure out the wiring. Right now I'm installing an electric fuel pump, where do i get the power for the pump ? When I put the electric fuel pump on my C-121 with battery ignition I wired into the Pos. coil wire. But the wiring on this engine is much different. :help:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

Is there an accessory ("A") terminal on the ignition switch?

[squonk 44,032]

If all else fails, run a fused wire to a toggle switch.

[JC 1965 1,532]

Terry, Yes,there is an Accessory (A) terminal on the ignition switch. I'm using the ignition switch off the 414 mag. that this engine came off of.

[JC 1965 1,532]

Sorry Terry, in the above post I said " I'm using the ignition switch off of the 414 mag. " I meant to say I'm using the ignition switch off of the 414-8 tractor that this engine came off of. It's a 1987 M14S spec # 601524. If that helps. :confusion-shrug:

[JC 1965 1,532]

Terry, Are you saying i should attach the electric fuel pump to the accessory ( A ) terminal on ignition switch ? This engine is one of those unregulated systems with the 3 amp stater. It has a black wire and a yellow wire coming from the stator. I think the black wire is the charge wire and will connect to the magneto ( M )terminal on the ignition switch. The yellow wire is for the lights, i think. There is a white wire coming from the electronic coil and i think it is the kill wire and will connect to the accessory (A) terminal on the ignition switch. Does that sound right ? I will also be using the old electric pto clutch that was on the Raider 12 and i don't know where to attach the hot wire for it. Any help would be appreciated. :thumbs2:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

The yellow wire from the stator is lighting power and the black wire is for recharging the battery. The black wire will need connected to the ignition switch "R" terminal.

The wire coming from the ignition module (magneto) has to be grounded to stop the engine. It will connect to the "M" terminal on the switch.

The fuel pump power wire and the PTO clutch switch power feed should both connect to the "A" terminal. A suitable fuse on each is highly recommended.

The 3 amp system is probably enough to maintain the battery - even with the electric clutch and fuel pump, but I don't know that for sure.

[JC 1965 1,532]

Thanks Terry, What size fuse should i use on the pump and pto clutch ? This may be dumb, but i was just thinking, since i don't need lights, could i use the yellow wire to power either the pump or the pto clutch ? :dunno:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

I'm not good at recommending fuse sizes. You might want to ask a more qualified individual like Chuck ("save old iron") for that answer.

The yellow wire is AC - not DC - and can only be used for lights.

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

But the wiring on this engine is much different.

Unfortunately, so is your charging system CAPACITY.

Before we talk fuses, let's talk needs. The simple math works against you here.

The PTO will probably need 3, maybe 4 amps to run properly. Below is an actual resistive measurement of a PTO coil. By a quick thumbnail calculation

14.5 volts / 3.6 ohms = 4.02 amps for just the PTO coil.

The fuel pump will probably need about 1 amp.

This leaves little, if any, excess capacity for charging the battery.

If the entire charge system is rated at 3 amps, the battery would never fully charge and the electrical accessories would eventually start to malfunction as battery voltage dropped from lack of sufficient charging current. Prolonged low charge on the battery would quickly kill off reserve capacity of the battery and severely shorten its useful life.

p.s the stator would always be producing maximum output. The stator would be called on to charge the battery as soon as you turn off the PTO. Never a moments rest to cool off and never enough time to charge the battery once the PTO is turned off.

[JC 1965 1,532]

Wow Chuck, I had no idea that the PTO clutch needed that much power. I haven't installed the electric fuel pump yet so, if I go with a manual fuel pump will I still be overloading the electrical system with just the PTO clutch ? I sure would like to be able to use the PTO because this old Raider 12 wasn't set up for the manual PTO. I Can't imagine what Kohler was thinking when they put these unregulated 3 amp electrical systems in some tractors. I really appreciate any help you can offer on this issue. I kn

ow that when it comes to electrical problems, you are the go to man.

P.S. what happened to the squirrel ? :eusa-whistle:

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

JC,

first off, you are welcome for the assist. Anytime.

I would imagine upgrading to a 15 amp stator and a matching M style flywheel would provide you with all the power would would need for the lights, charging system, fuel pump and the electric PTO. A quick trip to E bay or the classified section should net you all the parts needed for the upgrade. I'm thinking for the stator, RR unit and flywheel maybe $75 - $100 for the upgrade ??

I'm sure others have done similiar upgrades and could provide finer details on the steps needed.

The squirrel is not gone, I just botched an animation I was going to do for the olympics. SOI blowing smoke rings in the shape of the olympic symbol. Have no fear, SOI shall return.

[JC 1965 1,532]

Chuck,

Thank you for your help. I will look into upgrading this engine like you suggested. I want to finish some of the wiring and start it up so I can see if it is worth upgrading. I have never herd it run but before I set it on the tractor I checked it out pretty good and everything looked good. If I like the way it sounds I will probably get in touch with Kelly to see if he has the parts I need. Thanks Again !!

PS. Might need your help with wiring if I decide to upgrade. " And I'm glad to here that the squirrel is returning "

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

JC,

here is a diagram to help with the M conversion. This will serve to at least start a conversation regarding the proper way to wire the M.

Two important considerations. Make certain you have an ignition switch with "M" and "G" terminals and above all

DO NOT CONNECT THE KILL WIRE FROM THE MAGNETO TO A 12 VOLT SUPPLY - DOING SO WILL DESTROY THE MAGNETO.

SOI in your corner and standing by .......

[JC 1965 1,532]

Chuck,

Thanks so much for your help and for the wiring diagram. I'm sure it will prove to be very handy. I'll let you know when I start the upgrade. :thumbs2:

[Kelly 1,033]

Am I wrong? but I think all the Magnum engines I have had here had the 3 amp charging system, I know you can't put a K series flywheel on the magnum, so did they use a 15 amp system on the Magnum engine?

[can whlvr 994]

im pretty sure that my 312-h has a 15 amp,it looked like it in the manual when i rebuilt it

[JC 1965 1,532]

My 312-8 is 15 amp. Several of the mags. are 15 amp. I don't know what kohler was thinking when they put those puny little old 3 amp systems on some of the mags. :confusion-shrug: