Balance Gears K-321

[JC 1965 1,532]

I have a 1987 414-8 that i've had stored in the barn for about a year. I Got it really cheap and didn't want to try to start it until i could clean it up and check it out. So I cleaned it up real good and rebuilt the carb. I checked the fuel pump and it works fine, I pulled the head and cleaned everything, it's a standard piston and the cylinder walls look good and so do the valves. I checked the valves for adjustment and they were right on spec. The oil pan gasket was leaking so i pulled the pan off to change the gasket. Everything looked real good inside the engine except the balance gears are a little loose. I Would like to remove the balance gears before i put the oil pan on and start it up. How hard is it to remove the balance gears? I have never overhauled an engine so i don't know how to remove the balance gears. I have read posts on here about them coming apart so i don't want to leave them in since they're loose. Any help appreciated. :hide:

[Trouty56 567]

I once asked that question and the answer I got was to break them with a punch and hammer. It worked for me.

[JC 1965 1,532]

Wow! are you serious, Just break them with a punch and hammer? Wouldn't that damage other parts and get small pieces of metal inside the engine block? :confusion-shrug:

[bowtiebutler956 650]

I once asked that question and the answer I got was to break them with a punch and hammer. It worked for me.

That might work, but I'm not sure I would be comfortable doing it this way on one of my Kohlers. I would recommend pulling the crankshaft out, and removing this way. Its quite a bit of work, but its better that having them come apart while running.

Matt :flags-texas:

[Trouty56 567]

TT was the member who suggested it. They broke easily in large pieces. Maybe do a search and see what you find.

sent via mobile....

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

The bottom gear can be removed without breaking it. The top gear only needs the lighter portion broken off to clear the crankshaft.

I place a chisel between the teeth and (normally) just a bump with a hammer will cleanly break the cast gear.

I have never had one shatter into tiny pieces, but if you're worried about shrapnel, wrap a rag around the gear.

[dsholler 54]

Forgive me, but I know very little about these engines, (and engines in general for that matter). I have a 414, which claims to have 405 hours on what I think is the original engine. The PO never had the engine rebuilt, but obviously this could have happened in the 19 years prior to his owning it. (it is an '87 as well). Should I have any concerns about the balance gears? Or do I just check their state sometime in the future when I have to take the head off anyway...

[coldone 35]

I wish i would have heard of breaking the top one off so that it would clear the crank before I tore mine down to get it out.

I would have went that route if I had known.

[Fordiesel69 271]

How likely are they to break during normal 3600rpm use? I know in tractor pulling they explode but if used normal is thee any reason to remove them?

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

How likely are they to break during normal 3600rpm use?

If the stub shafts aren't worn, the endplay is correct, and the needle bearings are in good shape ~ probably never.

As you've probably noticed, these counterbalance gears are much heavier on one side. A little wear in the bearing and the next thing you know, they make a new place to check the oil. :hide:

[JC 1965 1,532]

Thanks for clearing that up Terry, I feel more comfortable about using a hammer and chisel now. I really didn't want to take the engine apart to get the balance gears out but i sure didn't want to leave them in there loose. Thanks for your help. :text-thankyoublue:

[Fordiesel69 271]

So the balance gears start at the K241 model correct? And about what year?

[kpinnc 14,663]

So the balance gears start at the K241 model correct? And about what year?

The K241 I rebuilt did not have them, but I have seen them in every K321 I've opened up. Not sure if they were in the K301s or not.

Magnum 10 didn't have them either. Not sure about any others in that line.

[sorekiwi 761]

[JC 1965 1,532]

Mike, the large gear on the left, in your pic, is that the bottom balance gear that TT said could be removed without breaking ?

[JC 1965 1,532]

I just noticed something, I was looking at my first post when i started this topic and i realized i made a mistake. I referred to the engine in question as a K-321 it's actually a M-14 magnum. sorry about that.

[sorekiwi 761]

Mike, the large gear on the left, in your pic, is that the bottom balance gear that TT said could be removed without breaking ?

No, thats the top gear that you have to break to get it out, unless you want to disassemble the the whole motor.

Thats the first and only one I've done, and it was with TTs guidance that I did it. . I could have used a smaller hammer, it broke first hit and surprisingly easily. I put all the bits back together on the bench to make sure I'd got all the chunks.

The motor that the gears came out of runs as smooth as any other big block Kohler I have. Unfortunately removing the balance gears had no effect on the oil consumption on that particular motor!! Still goes like hell and smokes like a train! But I'll have no hesitation in removing the gears from any other motor I have the oil pan off.

[JC 1965 1,532]

Ok Mike, one other question, when i break the lite or thin part of the top gear, will the rest of the gear be loose so i can remove it or will i have to remove a pin or rod or something else to get it out ? I don't want to get on your last nerve, just want to make sure i do this right. :hide:

[sorekiwi 761]

Its been a while, I dont really remember the details. I know that it took one hit to break the gear, and then it came out. The shaft it runs on (and the lower shaft) can stay in the engine, no need to remove them.

The whole deal took about 45 minutes, including the time to scrape all the old gasket off the bottom of the block and the oil pan.

[JC 1965 1,532]

Ok Mike, I think i got it now. Wish me luck and thanks for your help. :thumbs2:

[JC 1965 1,532]

wow ! I was just getting ready to remove the balance gears from my M-14 kohler magnum. I was going to use a hammer and punch as discussed in the posts above. Well, i was on Brian Miller's web site looking up info on electric fuel pumps and i saw where he was talking about balance gears. If i read it right he says don't remove the balance gears from any magnum cause it will cause dangerous vibration. It's ok on the old K- series just not on the magnums. What do you guys think? I thought the mags were pretty much the same as the K- series.I'm confused !! HELP !!!!

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

I thought the mags were pretty much the same as the K- series.

For the sake of this discussion - they are the same.

The crankshaft is balanced to the weight of the piston & rod assembly - whether there are counterbalance gears in the engine or not.

[JC 1965 1,532]

So Terry, Are you saying that it's ok to remove the counter balance gears without getting more vibration ? :dunno:

[smoreau 658]

They are not balance gears, they are grenades!! I have a low hour k341 that still has the balance gears in it and it runs like a dream! Its in my rusty gem 74 c160 I got from Kelly. some day I will mop and glow the tractor, and when I do the balance gears are coming out!

As for the saying mop and glow means De-rusting, cleaning it up and painting with a spray bomb. Restore means complete cleanup, fixing every little imperfection, and very little filler and all dents removed, not filled. high quality paint job.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,162]

So Terry, Are you saying that it's ok to remove the counter balance gears without getting more vibration ?

If your engine only has the two counterbalance gears at the "side" of the crankshaft, they can be removed.

I have only ever seen pictures of 16hp Magnum singles with the third (true) balance gear directly below the crank gear and it must remain in place to balance the reciprocating assembly - unless the crankshaft is swapped for the heavier 14/16hp part. I am not positive, but I believe this catastrophe-waiting-to-happen is only found in the 14/16hp Magnum engines with the "Q" spec that use the lighter 12hp crankshaft.