Road trip to bring home a 416 not successful.

[Wheel-N-It 2,976]

Had to post this to get it off my chest;

Some of you guys know I am in the market for a nice WheelHorse to permanently attach a WH 36" tiller onto. I started with buying a 520H that has great potential, but the engine now belongs to another RS member, so repowering the 520 is now on a warm back burner. Gotta get my tiller turning first, then the 520. Part of my brain is daily chugging away thinking on that one. So now I'm thinking I should buy a nice, good running, everything works, 416 or 520, maybe even another 312. Basically I want a good looking tractor thats totally ready and set up to put my tiller on and go.

OK, I am on CL day and night, looking all over North Carolina and lower Va. and upper SC hoping to hit paydirt. I would really like to stay under a thousand dollars with whatever I bring home. Really $750 is more like what I want to spend. Keep in mind since it has been announced we are not getting an oil pipeline run through the United States from neighboring Canada, gasoline prices are on the rise again, plus too our loving Governor has recently raised the taxes on gasoline here, right about the same time she announced she is not running for a 2nd term in 2012, so i can easily add another $200 for gasoline to the price of the tractor if I have to make a 300 mile round trip dragging and enclosed trailer behind me..

Ahh, I find a 1980's 416-8 on CL about 145 miles from me. Guy on the phone sounds nice, tractor is worth looking at and I need a road trip anyway to clear my head.

I hook up the trailer to my Suburban, insert $100 worth of 89 octane and away I go..... Away I go 145 miles uphill in a headwind! Seriously though it was a nice drive, just trying not to go over 65 as I can't use overdrive to pull an enclosed trailer uphill in a headwind. Its beautiful where the guy lives and my TomTom takes me right to the guys house. I meet him, and see the 416. It looks good for a mid 80's WH. A little touch up paint here and there. Not beat up at all. No tears in the seat, starts and runs good, even took it for a spin around the yard. Those 16hp Kohlers have some sereious torque for what they are.

So what happened? First I noticed it has an old K341. Thats a good engine, and I have one in a Cub Cadet, but I also have a Kohler magnum engine in my other WheelHorse, and the Magnum engine is what I want. My bad on that, I should have asked. Won't make that mistake again. Call me crazy........

The headlights and tailights don't work, thats ok I am not planning on tilling around the clock anyway.

The left front wheel bearings are just a hair loose. thats ok too, just a minor repair.

The impliment hitch for the left and right axle is missing, No biggie, got one at home.

The steel cable that lifts the tiller is missing! Then the little voice in my head tells me to walk away.

So I tell the guy where I am at with the Horse, hoping he would come off the price, but he was firm on it, and I just could not find it in me to pay the $700 he wanted for the tractor, knowing I would have to order a cable today, then hope it would fit, and not have any problems with something not being right with the lift assembly. By the Way, it did have a 46" mowing deck that was in good shape..

Let me ask you. Did I make a bad decision? I don't think so but please give me some feedback to help increase my knowledge of buying a used WheelHorse. I will greatly appreciate your input.

Van

[can whlvr 994]

if horses are rare near you thats not over crazy price,its a little higher than most of us want to pay,i paid 450for my 414 with good 42 deck,she needed alot of maintanace for that,i wouldnt be afraid of the k series,not much different from the m,ignition being the main factor,but if you didnt buy it then your gut was telling you that your crazy but in all seriousness,wait till another one comes along and you will know if its the one

[boovuc 1,090]

You didn't make a bad decision! If it didn't seem right, you were right in not throwing the money down. I can tell you that the old Kohler K's are just as good as the magnums. You can still get parts for them and technically, there isn't too much difference between them. You know what you wanted and you stood your ground. Not buying it and waiting for the one you want is much better than getting something you wern't real happy with and dealing with it. Especially when you can't get the buyer down off his asking price.

CL will give up a tractor that will work for you. Just a little more time!

[sscotsman 186]

I would say, always listen to the little voice in your head..it was probably right.

if you had ignored the voice, you probably would have regretted it..

Scot

[zieg72 209]

Price is high... 416 from 85-86 had the K341 87-88 had the M16 and the 89-97 had the P216 Onan twin. I would repower the 520H with a Magnum and you will be a very happy camper. My $.02

[Kingwood990 16]

I guess we will just have to keep looking till the right one comes up for sale. Van I will keep a look out and I will let you know what I find.

[AMC RULES 37,211]

:text-+1: It's your money, use it when you want to. :dunno:

[Wheel-N-It 2,976]

Thank you everybody. Your opinions have really put me at ease over the situation. I know right now I will sleep better over this tonight than I did last night. I admit I was beginning to second guess myself.

I better check Craigs List once more before bedtime;)

Van

[Ken B 3,189]

Man, I don't know without at least seeing some pics. From the sounds of it, I think the seller was probably right on target for what they go for. Like someone else said, if Horse's are rare in your area you may be waiting a long time.

On the other hand, I made a similar trip like you just did, not to long ago in fact, 3 hr. ride one way. I also enjoy the road trips to clear my head, enjoy the scenery and to enjoy a few cigars at the same time. My Chevy truck also sucks the fuel down in a bad way. My mistake was I didn't want to come home empty handed but I should have left that piece of crap right where it was settin. (the guy fibbed on the phone, big time) Ya win some ya lose some! Happy huntin.

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,541]

IMO that tractor is a solid machine. The K series 16hp is a great motor. The things you said were a problem are not a problem to me. Like others said it is your time and money. Good luck-

[546cowboy 302]

I'm sure everyone here has had th same problem, I know I have a couple that I should have left where they were and made several trips of over 100 miles that were fruitless. The longer you do this the easier it gets to pass on some of these deals. If you think about it you would have never been happy with that tractor and beat yourself about it. If you keep watching you will find the one you want and maybe at a price you cannot pass on. I watched CL for almost a year before I found an engine for a 520 I had.

[jay in nc 210]

van. if you think you did right you didi know horses are rare here i central nc. ones for sale anyway! i should have left the 88 520 in newport news when i saw it & should have taken up the po. on getting my money back when it started knocking right after an oil & filter change."stp must be able to mask many sounds" but 6 hoursdrive to return was out of the question. jay

[Wheel-N-It 2,976]

OK then, if there is a next time like this, and I find a good running 416, here is my question;

I said I have the impliment attachment that bolts to the transaxle. Mine is off the 520 roller that I have, and it is a 1995 model. Will that assembly work on a 416 transaxle? Easy question for alot of you guys. If my assembly will work on a 416, then I will not let the absence of a lift cable affect my purchasing decision. Also, I will not pass on one just because it has the K motor.

Many sincere thanks to you fellas for your help with this.

Van

[kpinnc 14,712]

I think you made the right decision Van. Anytime you have reservations, walk away. Yes, Wheel Horses are uncommon here- but they are by no means rare. The real problems we are beginning to face are the number of people who watch too much "American Pickers" on TV and Ebay prices. They think because they have anything with the WH logo on it, it must be worth 5 times more than it actually is. I haven't bought another tractor in several years because of that simple fact. Not only can I not afford the newer prices, but even if I could, I wouldn't pay what most folks are asking for them now. If it makes you feel any better, I passed on a garage-kept, service records on-hand, one-owner, beautiful 1986 416-8 with low hours. It had a complete set of OEM spare belts and blades for the deck, and a few other normal wear parts as well. It was washed and waxed every year by the owner, and was the nicest tractor I've seen in years. He wanted $500 for it, and I didn't have it at the time... I still kick myself over that one, because it was actually worth what was being asked for it. The ONLY good thing about that deal was that my father-in-law bought it, so I may still get a shot at it later when he gets tired of it.

Just a thought- My 310-8 has plenty of power when I use it with my tiller. Even while tilling this red concrete they call soil here, it never bogs down. You would be fine using any WH in the 10-16hp range for what you're looking for, and there are always a few models for sale locally to choose from. I can keep an eye out in the Charlotte area as well if you want me to. Heck, I'm always looking anyway!

And yes- the implement lift parts will switch over between those two models. Only the cable routing tube is different between 8-speeds and hydros. The 8-speeds have them installed OEM, but the tube is removable regardless.

[Wheel-N-It 2,976]

thank you KP! This one did have the routing tube installed, but there was no cable in it. Hey, how about the 312-8 for sale on CL in Albemarle where you live? Have you checked on it?

[leeave96 490]

Price sounds high to me. If it has a Kohler K series, it is an older tractor. On the other hand, the K series engine are IMHO equals to the Magnum engines.

I sent you a PM too.

Good luck,

Bill

[dennist 139]

You are looking to put the tiller on one tractor for tiller use only? As stated above the 310-8 will do that job with ease and use very little fuel at the same time. IMO the 300 series will be cheaper to purchase also. I have used a 310-8 as a dedicated tiller tractor for many years and it is always reliable and no need to burn more fuel for doing the same job. Yes, if I only had one tractor, I would be going to the 400 series so I would have the heavier axles(yes, there are heavier axles in the 300 series) and extra HP, but just using it for tilling is great.

[kpinnc 14,712]

Hey, how about the 312-8 for sale on CL in Albemarle where you live? Have you checked on it?

I can't seem to find that listing Van. Can you send me a link?

[Wheel-N-It 2,976]

KP, I will check when i get home. just got on line here at the office for a quick minute. I will PM you regarding that 312.

Van

[IthacaJeff 151]

You made the right decision. When your gut says to walk because it just ain't what you were

lookin' for, then walk. Paying for it just because you don't want to come away empty handed from

a long drive is not a good reason. Chalk the drive up to a fun road trip and go back to looking.

BTW, I have a 416-8 with the K341, paid $360 for it after looking at it in the dark. Should have looked

at it in the light! I love the machine, but had I had a better look at it and the "hidden" damage I would

have offered a whole lot less and walked away if not accepted. I'm not much into looker tractors, so

the 416 has been holding 2 ac mowing duties for a couple of years.

I run my tiller on a 310-8. I think the 10 hp Magnum is a bit underpowered for what I want it to do, but

I've asked it to till deep in pretty wet clayey soil. On the other hand, the 310 can go all day on a tank

of gas when the 416 is on E in the shed.

Jeff

[Hydro 131]

It's gotta feel right for you. Four years ago I bought a 520 on Ebay and came from Ontario to Southern PA only to find it was not what was represented, it was not what I was told. The photos were misleading. I walked away. 2-nights on the road, 1500 plus miles and an entire weekend wasted so in great scheme of things your OK. I like the Magnum too. If you want a Magnum then wait "til you get one.

Everything comes at a price :eusa-think:

[Wheel-N-It 2,976]

It's gotta feel right for you. Four years ago I bought a 520 on Ebay and came from Ontario to Southern PA only to find it was not what was represented, it was not what I was told. The photos were misleading. I walked away. 2-nights on the road, 1500 plus miles and an entire weekend wasted

Seems like just about the time I start thinking of maybe sticking my neck out for something on Ebay I hear a horror story like this.

So sorry that happened to you. Thank you though for passing this story on as it can give someone here a heads up of what can possibly happen when shopping on Ebay. Hopefully you will never have to experience that again, especially with what gas prices are today.

Van

[MalMac 1,332]

It's gotta feel right for you. Four years ago I bought a 520 on Ebay and came from Ontario to Southern PA only to find it was not what was represented, it was not what I was told. The photos were misleading. I walked away. 2-nights on the road, 1500 plus miles and an entire weekend wasted so in great scheme of things your OK. I like the Magnum too. If you want a Magnum then wait "til you get one.

Everything comes at a price

Hey Hydro, I had the same thing happen with an Eba purchase, except I would have to had give up some down payment money. I went ahead a brought the tractor home and parted it out. I told the seller just exactly what I thought of him misrepresenting things and informed Eba about him. To my surprise Eba notified my that they had band him from selling anymore because of too many complaints. This happened several years ago and now I am much wiser. The old saying buyer beware is worth it's weight in gold. Anytime money down is asked before seeing the actual item is a bone head move. To this day you will never convince me that the picture I saw of the tractor was the same tractor I seen when I went to pick it up.

Eba? what happen to my Y?

[Hydro 131]

Thanks guys, nice to know I am not the only one, now having said that I bought a 416H on ebay first and it was exactly what it was represented to be and probably that's why I thought I would be okay the 2nd time.

Oh by the way gas here in Ontario works out to about $5.00 a U.S. gallon.

This year I met 3 different RS members buying my 314, blower and parts, everything was as it should be. I also bought my 416-8 this year on ebay and it was exactly as described but it was from a dealer in Stittsburg.

I think it's human nature to take people at their word and sometimes people take advantage of that and sometimes people just have different ideas about condition.

[Wheel-N-It 2,976]

I think it's human nature to take people at their word and sometimes people take advantage of that and sometimes people just have different ideas about condition.

Absolutely true, and well said.

Hence the old saying " Let The Buyer Beware "