metalman01 0 #1 Posted January 23, 2012 Just wondered if anyone out there has ever run across a Phantom machine?.. By Phantom I mean, ya know what you got cause yer lookin right at it... Ya know it wasn't modified, cause ya know the machine's history.... But yet the people at Toro/Wheel Horse tell you that you don't have what you have, cause it's something else....OK Enough mystery, here's the fact's (as best I know them) . I own a 520-8 Wheel Horse tractor. According to the dealer prep & delivery ticket's tucked into the owner's manual, the machine was purchased "New" in Nov. 92 near Trenton, Nj... But when trying to get a shop manual from Toro, I'm told according to my SN# I've got a 416H not a 520-8. They also tell me the rear fender with the SN# must have been switched. The SN# on origonal paperwork matches the tag on the fender, so that contradict's the fender switch theory. Another identity anchoring factor is. The neighbor I got the machine from is the head of maintenence at the private school that owned it from new. From him I also learned they didn't buy a floor model, but ordered it new. Making it unlikely, though not impossable, to be a leftover. Anyway, got tired trying to convince Toro, figured I know what I know, it is what it is, quit scratching my head just use it & learn on the way. That worked for a couple of year's, but lately I started thinking about some modification's. That prompted me to look for an owner's site because a man much smarter than I long ago tought me that "Experience Is The Best Teacher, But Only a Fool Know's No Other" . Got here, started looking around, & took a look at the year & model list's. Now I'm back to scratching my head, wondering what i've got, because 1990 was the only year I could find a 520-8............. So here's the hundred dollar question................. Has toro/Wheel Horse ever been known to produce oddball's, or re-SN# something produced earlier. I'm hoping someone out there might have a clue to what could have taken place, because I sure dont, & apparently niether does Toro. Metalman01 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kelly 1,033 #2 Posted January 23, 2012 They only made 225 or or so of them, and I believe it was in 90, are you sure it's a 520? just asking, does it have the plastic dash with I believe 3 guages? does it say 520-8 speed on the side of it? sorry not calling you a idiot but lots of new members don't know what they really have, can you post a picture? By the way :WRS: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,162 #3 Posted January 23, 2012 :WRS: Yeah - pictures would be a huge help. This was mine: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTPATRIOT 12 #4 Posted January 23, 2012 I'm curious for pics too.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoctorHfuhruhurr 137 #5 Posted January 23, 2012 Maybe someone installed the wrong tag at the factory. (Monday or Friday assembly) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dennist 139 #6 Posted January 23, 2012 A couple other questions- The dealer says it is a 416-H- Is it a Hydro or manual shift? What does the engine say- P220 or P216? What is the Number on the Seat Pan-Is it 41-20O801 (520-8)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Don1977 605 #7 Posted January 23, 2012 As it was a special order in a year that the 520-8 was not made there wouldn't be sticker ready made for it. Don't know why it would have a 416H sticker. Does it have the 20 HP engine and what size mower deck does it have. It may be that the dealer put it together to make the sale. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meadowfield 2,758 #8 Posted January 23, 2012 Certainly the knocked down models sold here in Europe are very random. It's rare to see two of the same models with the same decals or serial numbers.... Raider 10's that are Raider 12's, Raider 14's that are C-160's, etc. I think the Belgium factory just bolted anything together sometimes! Mark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
64s 83 #9 Posted January 23, 2012 I once owned a Jeep 'Pioneer' model which I purchased new off of the lot. A few years later when I went in to order some parts, I was told the vin number matched up to a 'Laredo' model which was the next level up. Like you I had the paperwork showing what I bought, but everyone was telling me that that's what I have. Mistakes are made and unfortunately if someone reads something on a computer, it becomes "fact", regardless of what is standing in front of them. This 'mistake' cost me more money in taxes and insurance over the 10 years I had it because it was a more valuable vehicle. I agree with the 'slapped a wrong sticker' on it theory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
546cowboy 302 #10 Posted January 23, 2012 Obviously like everyone above, a picture would help to demystify the problem along with the other facts, like does it have a 20 hp. Onan, an 8 speed manual trans? I had a 520-8 that I sold last year and from the Wheel Horse model list they were only made in 1990. It's not unusual for someone to not remember the year it was bought either. That was a really nice tractor and I hated to sell it but sooner or later you have to make room for more. Here is the one I had. http://cowboysredhorses.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=147619019 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalman01 0 #11 Posted January 24, 2012 OK, Here goes. Now to see if I can get everyboby's question's in without forgetting any, & by the way don't worry about the idiot part, I'm not infallable. I've slapped myself on the back of my head more times than I'd like to admit while muttering something like "Stunod ". (doesnt change anything, just kinda makes me feel like my Dad's still here),,. Anyhoo, according to the Delivery & Dlr. Prep ticket's the tractor was purchased in 92 by a Princeton, Nj. boarding school. A friend is & was then head of maintenance there, so I gave reasonable credability to his claim of "it bieng ordered new", but regardless of model year, I'd just like to know what I've got before deciding what & if to modify anything. That said, I've found more about it right here while gathering the info. for this reply than I did through multiple attempt's with toro, and I'll e'splain that right now. On the Fender Tag; Toro Wheel Horse Corp. ect..ect.... . ID#41-20O801.......10514. A second box on the tag just under this ID box is blank, but appears not used, as no trace of faded #'s remains....Now the Motor Tag #P220G..I /.10956C SN#893619754 PN#116610 According to the Model/Year list I found here at RS, both tractor & motor Id's correspond to a 1990 production year 520-8. All I got outa toro 8yrs. back was, Ya got a 416H there bud. Still unsure of the SN# though. #10514 is too short. & toro claims its not valid anyway. I know I've got the SN# written in the owners guide, but for the moment that remains burried in a file cabinet at what used to be my shop, & that's just too much to dig through right now.... Rest of the questions; Trans.. 3-speeds FWD 1-Rev W/ Hi Range/Low/Range stick to make 8 total gear choices. NO Hydrostatic Drive .... Engine; Onan Power Plus 20.... Hood; decaled W/ TORO in white & Wheel Horse 520-8 in red.... Dash is plastic W/ 3 guages; Charge(L) Hours© Fuel® and is topped w/ a 7 LED idiot light warning panel. This is flanked w/ a headlight sw(L) & warning pnl.circuit test sw®. Mower Deck is 46" w/ 3 blades. As to appearence , pretty much identical to the picture TT posted. Bit rougher though, but nothing paint wont fix. Mechanicly beautiful. School always had it serviced, just couldn't control how employees treated it. When my buddy got it, it was as sloppy as a 2 dollar hooker, but still ran incredably well. As a favor I tore it down & replaced every bushing & bearing (Thats how I later came to own it) It's still tight as new, just never addressed paint. I'll get pictures later, I can take em, just can't download em. Have to get my son to show me how.(which he'll do right after the mandatory make Dad feel like an idiot fer not knowin already session) & it's easy to figure that I'm in a big hurry get to that class, but I will get some to post.......... Came here to get info. on adding hydrolic's & a few other mod's. Now I wanna know if it really is a valid 520-8 would I be screwin it up? Also thanx for the input & welcomes. Don't know where this'll end up, but i've learned a lot already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tgranthamfd 29 #12 Posted January 24, 2012 I've often wondered. My 300 series was bought new in july of 2005 and most I find, according to the SN, is listed as a 2004 or 2007. I did find one break down that had it listed as a 2005. Who knows! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buckrancher 2,695 #13 Posted January 24, 2012 sounds to me as a left over 1990 model 520-8 that was sitting in a crate somewhere Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,162 #14 Posted January 24, 2012 The tag from my ex 520-8: I agree with Brian on the leftover scenario. As recent as early last year, I knew of a few 2007 315-8 "Classic" models still sitting in dealer showrooms. The 520-8 speed idea apparently bombed. It was not intended to be a limited edition model, so the only logical explanation for the low production number is that no one wanted them. It wasn't like Toro had to create special tooling just to build parts for this model - it's basically just a mixture of a 416-8 and a 520-H. As for the "screwing it up" by adding hydraulic lift...... I wouldn't be concerned unless you destroy part of the tractor in the process. In my opinion, you would be much better off finding the complete OEM electric lift kit - which might be a little slower, but would be a 100% bolt-on installation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalman01 0 #15 Posted January 25, 2012 According to the Model/Year chart posted here, the motor & fender ID tag's both concur with a 1990 / 520-8. If for no other reason but that alone I'd have to agree with you guy's that bieng a "Leftover" seems the most plausable explanation. I guess "had to be ordered" could also mean "found one available, just gotta get it here".... Now to the SN# snafoo My fender tag is identical to the one Terry posted, only blank where his has the partially faded 9353. Been a number of years, but I remember following instructions from Toro to get the Mdl./SN. info. for them & can't remember if there was more in the second box that has since faded. Back then, I also later realized the SN was already on the delivery ticket, but since I've got to unload a conex box to get to my file cabinets to retrieve those numbers that source is going to remain burried a while longer. (Point bieng, if needed I can still get it, just not now)... Question for now is. If the 41-20O801 is the model #. Do the next 5 together with the last 4, (as on Terry's ID sticker #10581 9353) comprise the SN? If not, what does? ... Along with hydrolics, the modifications I was considering included frame stretch & hood re-vamp. All with the intent, ease of use & increasing it's capabilities.... Dodged a bullet so far this year in the snow dept. but when we get it my son & I are usually out the full day digging out the neighborhood. I just enjoy it & it's good for him to learn, sometimes feeling good about what your doing is worth more than sticking your hand out. So far we've used the Wheel Horse plow that came with it... Plow was wooped & missing parts when it came from the school so I rebuilt the blade, added a cutting edge & articulated the frame (much like a truck plow) gave it much more lift & got the blade away from the tires when angled. (works well, lotsa lift but the short A frame & heavier blade are a bear to raise. Adding hydrolics to power lift & angle cylinder's started the brain fire. From there started thinking about loader bucket plans & frame stretch, even acquired an Agri-Fab snow blower to adapt to it. ....I enjoy repurposing machinery but not at the cost of destroying something of signifigance. Thats what I gotta figure out here. Not discounting what Terry said, just like to get as much as possable to make the right choice. Thanx Vince Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,521 #16 Posted January 25, 2012 I would not be surprised if your build date was the same as TT's. Your 10514 serial is just 67 units before his 10581. 9353 is the 353rd day of 1989 Tuesday December 19, 1989 So far it appears this model was produced in 3 batches. If you go to Toro and they ask for your serial number do not enter it. Use the word none for a serial number. Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can whlvr 994 #17 Posted January 25, 2012 you wont need anything other than the model# and engine #which can seen on the same chart as the model and years(all things wheelhorse)with those 2 #,s you can get all parts and engine parts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
decksetter 50 #18 Posted January 26, 2012 does it have the forward swept axle and / or gear reduction steering? If I'm remembering right, a '92 model year would have both but a '90 would have just the forward axle. I think '89 is neither, is that correct? Also, my dad bought a "new" 416H that was a year old, Did these tractors come with a title? If so I don't know what it's dated... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,162 #19 Posted January 26, 2012 1990 was the only year for the 520 8 speed. They have the forward-swept front axle and "standard" steering. The reduction steering was introduced on the 1991 520-H models. The 1988/89 520-HC models were the first to have swept-forward axles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ericj 1,579 #20 Posted January 26, 2012 I got another odd story to add to this, i answer an add on c/l for an onan motor. a guy i know had for sale and he said he was parting out a 520, which i assumed was a 520h and told him i was interested in the the other parts. but almost had a coronary when i found out it was a 520-8. so i hastily made a deal on the whole tractor which had major wiring problems and allot of rusty metal . when i got it home and checked the model # it should have been a 1990 520H, BUT the tractor appears to be original 8 speed. i figured the seat pan got swapped at the dealer due to possible damage to the fender pan and to make a quick sale. regardless it will always be a 520-8 to me. by the way it is all back together now and running. had friend re-due the wiring harness . now i just need to find the funds to restore it. metalman i'would't modifie this tractor like someone noted above wheel horse only built like 250 of these so they are one of the more rare wheel horse's eric Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalman01 0 #21 Posted January 27, 2012 Without going back to see who asked, I noticed 2 more questions I didn't address & don't want to ignore anyone cause I really do appreciate the input... 1st) Gear reduction steering.. glad someone else answered cause I had no clue.... 2nd) The 416-H tag... I gave Toro the same #'s then that I used here to identify it as a 520-8... Toro said the #'s I gave identified it as a 416-H. Still don't know where that came from, because nothings changed & I could read then as well as now... I can only surmise (using the info. from you guys about low production #'s) that they figured I was either reading incorrectly or just full plain of it. So they filled in the blanks & came up what they thought it must be. Cause with so few of them around, no way the dummy on the other end of the phone could be right......Right?..... The people I spoke with were pleasent & friendly. Just adamant about what I didn't have & otherwise not very informative.... Oh Well, **** Happens. Still all considered, No hit, no foul, just glad I found out before cutting the frame............. Back to the present. OK, I'm convinced, it really is a 520-8. To think otherwise I'd Hafta be deaf dumb & blind & although I have been accused of bieng all 3 (mostly by my wife & usually with good cause) never all 3 at once. This revelation comes as kind of a mixed bag though. Naturally there's the exhilaration of stumbling over "a find", but this one's coupled with an "awhshit" cause now there's no way I could in good concience proceed with my original plan. At this point I think it wise to defer any revisions until till I speak with a tractor Guru I know. In this case a guy named Jerry B. in Elmyra NY. If anybody would know the best way to go here it would be him..... Didn't think of it before, but I figure he's gotta be a member of one if not several of the entheusist sites. If not here, I doubt Elmyra's flooded with tractor buff's with the same name & initial, so maybe somebody in the surrounding area will recognize it & tell him to take a look. Long shot I know, but I've seen stranger things happen. Also as soon as I get pictures I'll get em posted. Till then Thanx for the help & info. VJT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littleredrider 409 #22 Posted January 27, 2012 I go to Elmira area everday, and look in craigslist there as well, dont' see too many horses in that area. But I'm sure there is many there, just don't see them. I'm not sure what it fit, but I have an electric lift that is just sitting. Should be able to fab something to make it work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can whlvr 994 #23 Posted January 27, 2012 it is strange that the dealer would mix up the numbers,the #,s from a hydro and an 8 speed are completely different,shows some of them dont give a darn,or think they know more than you or me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites