Solenoid Help

[64s 83]

I picked up a 314 a couple of months ago and just started going thru it to get it running. I went to start it the other day and all I got was a series of clicks. I jumped the two large posts on the soleniod and the starter proceeded to turn the engine over, so I figured the solenoid was bad. Reading up on it, I came across a bunch of suggestions on what the problem could be. Unfortunately I had already removed it and decided to test it outside of the tractor. I read where you can test with an ohm meter and did it hopefully correctly with a Sperry 350A. Doubting my skills with the Sperry, I figured a simple light test would tell me if it works. Its a 4 pole solenoid so I put the neg pole onto a neg post on a battery, I put the light clip onto the neg pole also, hit the pos post to the other small pole on the solenoid and heard the click. I then put the light to both of the large poles (one at a time) and neither time did the light light up - but it did when I touched it to the pos small pole.

Am I doing this right? Are there any better ways?

The person I bought this from now feels bad that I'm having issues and has recommended that I clean all of the grounds very well. Just wondering what's the best way to tackle this? Thanks.

[can whlvr 994]

well im not sure on the meter test i can tell you that the solinoid do go and its common for them to fail,and they arnt expensive to replace,i just got one from my dealer for 15 bucks

[64s 83]

I guess I didn't state part of my concern - its not the money (I found similar replacements for $17 and change) but the possibliity of something else going on. Unfortunately I have a history of throwing money at things until I figure it out - I'm just trying to be 'smart' about it. If its the solenoid then ok, but if its something else, I'd like to figure it out. Thanks for the reply!!

[sorekiwi 761]

I havent looked at the schematics for your tractor, but there will be some safety switches in the system that could stop the solenoid from working.

I need to start moving my 7 year old towards bed, I'll check back in later.

[64s 83]

I jumped the seat and neutral switch, and the pto is off. Given it cranked when I jumped the two large posts, I assume the switches are out of the equation. Did I check the solenoid correctly with the test light, or is there another method?

[sorekiwi 761]

OK, back again.

I dont know what year and model of 314 you have, but a quick skim through the schematics shows that most have a seat switch, pto switch and a neutral switch in line to the starter solenoid. All of these must be working in order for the solenoid to work.

To check if all these are functioning, put your test light clip on the negative side of the battery (or a good chassis ground) and put the probe end into the terminal on the small wire that triggers the solenoid. Turn the key to the "start" position, and the test light should light up (you will need to have the tractor in neutral, someone in the seat and the pto disengaged).

If the test lamp lights up, all your safety switches are working, and it is your solenoid or starter that is faulty.

If it doesnt light up, then something is stopping the current flow to the solenoid. You will need to check each of these switchs to find out which one is faulty. There is also the posibility that the starter switch itself is not working.

If you post your year and model, I can post up the schematic of the starting circuit.

EDIT: Looks like we were posting at the same time.

Easy test for the solenoid: There should be no continuity between the two big terminals with nothing attached to the little terminal. With power applied to the little terminal there should be continuity between the big posts.

Jumping across the two big posts doesnt tell you if the "relay" part of the solenoid is working or not.

[64s 83]

Mike, We must have typed our responses at the same time.

I guess I'm being lazy and not wanting to reinstall the solenoid only to find out its bad. I just want to be sure that the way I tested it is correct, and it would mean that the solenoid is indeed bad. And I also don't want to buy a new one only to find out that the original one is still good and that there is another problem ??

Sorry I almost forgot - its a '01 314. Thanks!

[Don1977 604]

You said it clicked, the power got to it so it's not safety switches. Soleniod switches clicking it's usually a weak battery. Try charging the battery and try it again.

[sorekiwi 761]

Guessing it is an 8 speed...

I'm not quite sure if the test you did on the solenoid is good or not (its been a long day and I'm a little brain dead...)

To test it off the tractor: hook up your meter across the two big terminals to read continuity (or resistance). It should read no continuity. Run a small wire from one of the two small terminals to the neg side of the battery. Touch the other small terminal to the pos side of the battery and you should hear the click and the meter should show continuity between the big terminals.

[sorekiwi 761]

You said it clicked, the power got to it so it's not safety switches.

He said it clicked when he "hit the pos post to the other small pole on the solenoid and heard the click" , so the safety switches were bypassed at that point.

[64s 83]

You're both correct, I got a click both in and out of the tractor. I'm assuming that the continuity test should show the same results as the light test - I'll do it tomorrow as the test equiptment is outside and I'm too lazy to do it tonight. I apprciate the help !!!

[squonk 43,407]

That solenoid can click until hell freezes over. All that's happening inside is that the contacts are pullung in. THe contacts themselves may be bad. Using an ohmmeter connect to the 2 large posts with it out of the tractor. Supply 12v to the small terminal that goes to the key switch. The other to ground. When it clicks, the ohmmeter should read 0 or continuity. If it doesn't you have a bad solenoid. If it does read 0 put it back in the tractor and make sure your getting 12V to it and all grounds are good. Also check for 12 V at the starter when the key is turned to start.

[64s 83]

OK, I guess I don't understand exactly how a solenoid works.

When I test for contuniuity, the meter zero's out indicating both poles are now 'connected'.

When I put a light to either pole, nothing happens. If the solenoid is putting the 12v from the battery to the starter upon energizing, then shouldn't a 12v light light up?

Either I don't know what the ----- I'm doing, or I don't get how this contraption works.

[refracman 167]

A selinoid can "click" and still not work.

When you energize the small post you are making a connection between the large posts so power passes thru the selinoid,you are "flipping the switch"

Make sure on the small posts you are useing the one maked S.

battery should read 12V +/- .5v 1)

1) useing one of the mounting holes on the selinoid bolt a lead from it to the negitive post on the battery

2) connect a lead from the Pos post of the battery to S post of the selinoid

3) set meter to OHMs,

4)connect the lead from the OHM meter to the large posts of the selinoid

5) metter sould read 0 OHMs or real close to be good.

Also check the wire from the selinoid to starter to ensure its good.

[Rollerman 290]

Think of your solenoid as a heavy duty light switch.

Your ignition switch can not handle the power load itself being sent to the starter.

When you crank your ignition to "start" it send power to the small post on your solenoid "triggering" it to close & complete a circuit sending power to the starter.

Solenoids can handle the higher amp current needed to trigger the starter.

I would reinstall it on the tractor, two bolts, two HD wires, & the trigger wire.

If your positive your getting power from the ignition to the small lead that "triggers" the solenoid...

Put it all back together on your tractor, but do not connect the starter cable/lead to the solenoid...just the cable/lead from the battery.

That way you can turn your key to start, monitor your ohm meter or test light & see if your completeing the circuit without running the starter.

(just seems less confuseing to me if I don't have an engine spinning or starting when I'm trying to troubleshoot)

If your test light lights up, double check it with your meter to see your getting the right amount of current.

Solenoids do wear out, even if you hear the click & the test light comes on, it may have to much resistance on the contacts inside to use or send enough power to start your tractor.

They are relatively cheap at the auto parts places & farm stores.

[Road-Track 39]

To make the starter turn, you have to have 3 clicks. The neutral relay, the kill switch reply and the starter solenoid.

With the starter solenoid out of the tractor.

1) You should have 12 volts at the Orange wire you discounted from the starter solenoid when you turn the key to start.

If you don't:

The neutral switch and PTO switch aren't closed or the interlock relay isn't picked (energized)

If you do have 12 volts: That part of the circuit is good, go to step 2

2) Now check continuity (OHMS) from the Brown wire you disconnected from the starter solenoid and ground when you turn the key to start.

If you don't read continuity to ground:

The kill switch relay isn't picked (energized)

If you do read continuity to ground: That part of the circuit is good, go to step 3

3) Install the starter solenoid

If you don't run the starter.....get a new starter solenoid.

If it works. Play with tractor!

[Boston Horse 2]

I was wondering if anyone had an extra solonoid for a 1987 310-8? I would be happy to pay for shipping on it. I need one asap - and I would rather get it from you guys than ebay if possible. Let me know. I can send you paypal tonight.

Dave

[Coadster32 793]

I used a generic solenoid from autozone on my 551. ($10...three on the shelf)

Another related question, is if you have a solenoid with a two wire trigger, does it matter which side goes to ground? (I'm thinking no but figured this post is a great place for it)

[BOWTIE 226]

HELLO COADSTER32, YES IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IT WILL NOT ENGAGE THE SOLENOID. I BOUGHT A TRACTOR THAT WOULD NOT TURN OVER AND THE SOLENOID WIRES WERE CROSS.

BOWTIE IN COLUMBUS

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

Not all 4 terminal starter relays have 2 terminals dedicated to the trigger circuit. "Ford" style relays will have one small wiring stud dedicated to triggering the relay and the 2nd stud becomes 12 volt positive only when the relay is engaged. If you assume these 2 studs are (+) and (-) triggers, the relay will not function properly.

[Coadster32 793]

AAAHHH HHAAA!!! Thanks for the info on this.

[Warning:Unsupervised 82]

   Several solenoid designs out there that look alike but not all wire up exactly the same. 

 I have a Deere parts tractor I had to drag home when I bought a C101-8 from a guy.  I took the Deere solenoid off today to put on my 414-8 & the Deere had a 4 post solenoid vs only 3 on my WH. 

I ended up running a ground wire on it as it don't ground using the bracket like a 3 post. 

 For now I ran a short wire from small (4th) post & shoved other end up between the solenoid bracket and firewall.

  Once it's mounting bolts are tightened it grounds. Tractor kicks right off and meter shows a good charge so all good here. First time I had to make a 4 post work in place of a 3 in many yrs.  

  I'll get a terminal ring to fit my mounting bolt later and fix it better, just didn't have any today.

More info here including WH (scroll down).

https://skippingtheinbetween.blogspot.com/2019/03/35-4-pole-starter-solenoid-wiring.html?m=1